really fed up

[bovverred]

with everytime someone produces another disruptive, out of control, violent, rude etc etc etc child the pc brigade give them a condition, and name. whatever happened to just plain naughty and needing disipline. makes me soooooo blody angry.

been here all day trying to do the same thing. Not true actually. Did go on ebay because I got bored for a while there.

Baa

Take it up with your LEA's they're the one's shutting special schools.

My son started school completely non-verbal, with one of those made up diagnoses (austism). Aged 9 he still can't talk at all. We were told that he was not allowed (no less) to go to a special school, we asked to look around one and were not given permission. So he went to mainstream. For 5 terms when I suggested that perhaps they didn't have a clue what they were doing (this was agreed) and he switched to an SLD/PMLD school.

Considering the problems we had getting our severely autistic, non-verbal child into special school can you imagine what parents of children who are high functioning go through. In our city there are three specialist secondary places per year for children with Aspergers. Three.

If you have issues with children with SN being disruptive, do everyone a favour shut up quit moaning on here and write to your LEA.

Diagnoses for ADHD and/or ASD are not easy to get. They usually involve multi-disciplinary assessments and - especially for higher functioning kids- can take years.

Yes, I think MN needs more raving iconoclasts to tell it how it is, y'know, in the REAL WORLD.

Don't think that genuinely AS kids or those with ADHD or any other medical / SN are the ones the OP was referring to. No sensible adult is going to tell you that any of these conditions or diagnoses are 'made-up'and if that IS what the OP was saying then I will condemn her with the rest of the MNers but I don't think she was.

That's not what she was saying though is it? (am getting bruise on head from banging it against wall) She says (allbeit fairly aggressively) that there might also be kids who are just badly behaved I don't think she has ever questioned the existence of autism/adhd etc has she?

x posted with SFTH...
(unsurprisingly)
Think I might go to ebay as well.

Same here, jimjams. I am currently having to fight very hard to get dd1 into an ASD unit. The perceived wisdom is that she goes into mainstream, with fuck all some support (I think they suggested 7 hours per week. I was too busy laughing to take them seriously).

I think we may have just won our battle, but the fact remais that is has taken us 18 months to get to this point. And dd1 has a severe language delay, with associated behavioural problems. In a mainstream classroom she would be nothing but disruptive, not through her own fault. God knows where we'd be if she was high functioning.

we were laughed out of the paed's office when we first suggested there was something wrong - they told me that since she wasn't sitting in a corner rocking and scratching at the walls then she couldn't be autistic 9actually she did usually scratch walls - she must not have liked their wallpaper though as she left them alone that day ). It took 2 years from that point ot get her diagnosed ASD. hardly easy, and not something that I could have been making up to suit my obviously deficient parenting.

Bloody hell; do people just read what they want to?
The OP was NOT referring to kids with actual medical conditions. She just didn't like the way labels@ were bandied about so freely.
Untwist your knickers for goodness sake.

It's the 'media will have you believe' bits etc. I'm not sure where all these parents blaming their children for having a condition they haven't been diagnosed with hang out, because I've never met one. I've met badly behaved children and I've met children who remain undxed who could do with one, but I've never met someone telling me their child has condition X without a dx.

More and more children are being diagnosed each year though. That however, is an entirely separate question.

Many children with SN are badly behaved at school-usually because of lack of adequate support. Many mainstream schools do an entirely poxy job of dealing with them. NOt the parent's fault.

And where are these labels bandied about so freely?

don't think that commenting on one area of society that is perceived not to be functioning by many (eg children's unruly behaviour) could be said to be iconoclasm

When my son kicks off in public these days I never say 'he has autism' as I know that there will be people like bovvered rolling their eyes thinking it's made-up. So I say 'he can't talk'. Which doesn't begin to explain why he might be kicking off or his disability but even the thickies sceptical seem to accept that as being something 'proper'.

I assumed that the OP is referring to Sn children though, as she has pointed out the usual "but there are so many more being diagnosed these days, surely some of them should not be..." line that so many people come out with, especially when there are high functioning chidren involved.

I also assumed (possibly incorrectly) that the OP was referring to another long-running thread (she said she had read a thread and then posted this one) about a child with SN whose needs are not being met at school.

bollock now I'm a pedant too. Will rush off and get a life.

sorry. that should be 'bollocks'

Quotes like "if a child is disruptive etc why shoud it be in mainstream school disrupting other cihildrns education and making teachers lives hell. if a child has a genuin condition the parent should not try and make him what he isnt by getting him into the same schoo etc" DO make it about children like mine, though. As I pointed out earlier, i am fighting bloody hard to make sure that dd1 isn't just shoved into a mainstream classroom.

some parents do not get that choice, through lack of special schools.

Thanks silverfrog- that was the bit my original post was about as well.

Why si this even still going?

Yes,I take it all back.

OP is correct and in fact there are simply hoardes of parents who go to the doctors for a diagnosis of ADHD/ADD or whatever because they can't be bothered looking after and disciplining their children.

jimjams Thank goodness you have come along!

I was actually beginning to get a bit uspet about this thread.

Actually bucharest your not the only one who feels like you've been banging your head against a brick wall. I said alot earlier on that of course there is a minority that is bad parenting. Actually aggressive posting as seen by the OP is very unpleasant and will result in negative comments.

sliverfrog, exactly that's how I read it as well.

By bovverred on Wed 24-Sep-08 11:52:55 "i think there are medical conditions but no where near the amount that the media etc would have us believe"

So the media have made up medical conditions now?

Which ones did they make up?

Bovvered seems to think there are hordes of badly behaved children out there, who if only their parents could be bothered to discipline them would no longer be rude, out of control, violent or naughty, and that all these children have got some convenient label that somehow absolves their parents from any responsibility. These children she has referred to as the "scum of the earth" and their parents are apparently "shit", oh and that here are no excuses for this. She then dismissed peacelily as a paper pusher, claimed that if only people were more family orientated everything would be just fine. Oh, and that anyone who disagrees with her here, must be "the sort of parents that I mean" - ie shit. Oh, and that parents whose children have a genuine diagnosis (as opposed to all those made up ones perhaps) should "not try and make him what he isnt " and send them to mainstream school.

Plenty to twist knickers about there I think. The OP is uninformed, and on the basis of this thread has no wish to gain greater understanding. Of course there are badly behaved children. There always have been. Many of those kids will have parents that are struggling, and some will have parents that couldn't care less. However this has nothing to do with whether the children have special needs (apart from those who have been neglected or where the disorder is hereditary). Conflating the two is going to cause a great deal of upset to those who have children with problems and who are struggling with the system and society for understanding and support.