really fed up

[bovverred]

with everytime someone produces another disruptive, out of control, violent, rude etc etc etc child the pc brigade give them a condition, and name. whatever happened to just plain naughty and needing disipline. makes me soooooo blody angry.

bovverred Most parents want the best educational setting for their child. Sadly LEA's are not always forthcoming with this and therefore children who would do better in a SN envoiroment are forced to attend mainstream. Again this is NOT the fault of the parent!

If a child is disruptive in mainstream education then the school is potentially equally to blame for not providing the child with the suport to aid their learning.

Segregating all those who find sitting in a classroom and learning difficult will not improve society as you suggest but create a further underclass of uneducated demotivated children, who are unlikely be able to access a decent well paid job .....not something I would imagine any parent wants

The issue of whether SN children should be in mainstream education is a complex one.
I agree that some children would be far better served in special educational facilities, but not all surely?

I feel sweeping generalisation of the sort you have been using are offensive and possibly intended to be so.

i didnt call anyone a twat!

neither did I

nor me.

i did not say all. i did not say alot of things but they are still being misinterptd

"dont you think people had problems years ago. how many kids stabbed each other then? how many kids showed no respect then? people had morals and respect for each other. old fashoned maybe, but it worked."

Ok, 50 years ago...that'd be 1958... race riots, mods and rockers, unmarried pregnant women were sectioned, wives could be raped by husbands in law...

Oh, wait a moment, you were thinking about the worlds salad days, before it grew up.... the sweet smell of mown grass, hot soup on a cold day.

In the past we were just as we are now. The difference is the technology and fashion.

You may have a point but it is mired in a weak argument. Your basic premise that it was all better in the past is flawed.

Then thinking through your arguments before posting in AIBU may help, as many off your statements could easily upsets those struggling with difficult children !

sticks an stones etc.....but words can really hurt!

And I say that as a parent not having to deal with the issues raised

well i shall crawl bk under my stone because i am not worthyouy enough to debate with all of you. but, i wont change how i feel.

Of course you won't change how you feel. You're incapable of listening and learning.

Haven't read all the posts here, but I agree with your original one, bovverred; medical conditions aside.

There are very few special schools these days, parents often don't get the choice.

This is quite a depressing thread actually, not least because it stemmed from one that bovverred had posted on under a different name. For that thread her child does in fact have a significant diagnosis!

My child has a genetic condition similar to Down Syndrome and whilst we would be happier if he were to attend a speech and language unit it simply isn't going to happen yet.

I'm grateful that he doesn't have a behavioural disorder not least because of other peoples attitudes.

Seems to me what you are basically saying is that all these "bad" kids should be kept away from your angels. And something around a Golden Age when children knew their place, and anyone with problems got locked away.

Of course there is bad parenting. There has always been bad parenting. There have also always been disruptive children. As to what proportion are disruptive because they have been brought up badly (bear in mind this is not the child's fault, as we don't get to choose our parents), which children are inherently naughty (I don't really go for this one, think it is pretty lazy thinking tbh) and which have neurological problems I don't think there is any evidence to show trends. There is some evidence that suggest that children who were undiagnosed in the past would be more likely to be diagnosed now. But that doesn't mean the diagnosis is phony, just that understanding of these things improves (as with other branches of knowledge). As diagnosis should lead to better management techniques this should mean that the affected children are taught using different, more effective techniques.

One thing that has changed, and this probably is relevant is how much deference there is in society. When professionals were thought to know best, people like teachers had more power (good and bad). Community fragmentation is also a factor. When families stayed in small geographical areas children knew that if they messed around their actions were likely to get reported back to their parents. So they were less likely to misbehave, at least in their local area.

I don't know why I am bothering to post this though, as you have already dismissed the views of someone who works with more children and families with problems than you and your friends are ever likely to come across, so obviously you have to with to think about your opinion...

i did not and have not posted on any other threads today as me or this name i am using now. i am not bobbysmum, i have just looked at her post. but i agree with her and not some over qualified busy body who pushes paper round all day for a living. im fedup with this. i have nothing to be ashamed of. parents need to take more responsibilty and stop blaming everyone else. they need to stay together and work together as a family. its all to easy to say i want more from life and jst walk out.

and its easy to say what you said in op then get all smug and up your arse about it.

Bloody hell bovverred calm down. I am sorry if I misunderstood your comments about name change.

That is however all I'm sorry for.

So you think you know better than all the Educational Phychologists, Paediatricians and other child health professionals? On the basis of brining up three children, all of whom I assume are neurologically typical? Well more fool you really.

Something tells me that bovvered will always know best!

She seems rather shocked and upset that people have the temerity to disagree with her.

I may be jumping in late, but reading the thread carefully, i honestly think bovvered has made some fair points, a lot of which i actually get.

She has constantly said that she accepts it's not all parents who jump on the diagnosis band wagon, just that it seems there are lots of labels around when some children are badly behaved because some parents don't parent well. I think that's fair.
I don't think she was saying that all labels are wrong, just that some kids run wild because of a lack of parenting. I think this does happen.
I also agree that there is a huge drop in the levels of respect that a lot of children show today ( again, not all children).

she also sounds like an advocate for family life and seems to be concerned for our future as a society.

barnsleybelle- thank goodness someone sees that there is actually a point to be made here as-opposed this just being seen as provocative

My thoughts exactly....

agreed....(with barnsleybele and SFTH) I attempted a few pages back to see the "bigger picture" (sorry for naffism) but gave up as the insult throwing on both sides gets too teenage.

Anyone who challenges the perceived norm is classed as provocative on MN. Sad, really. It's a shame we are a society of sheep.