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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you have not reserved seats on a train can you reasonably expect other passengers to stand to accomodate you and your DC?

155 replies

Upwind · 03/09/2008 10:39

I went on a long train journey on Friday afternoon & had reserved a seat. When I had lugged my bags up the length of the very long train to get to it, I found a sleeping toddler in my seat. Her mother asked me to sit elsewhere and she made the same request of the men who had booked the seat she and her DS were in. The men she had ousted stood in the corridor.

There were no seats available at rush hour that were not booked for most of my journey, and I moved twice in an effort to accomodate the family. When my ticket was inspected I was told I would have to move to my allocated seat if another passenger claimed theirs and I heard the guard clearly explaining to the mother that she would have to move if the people who booked her seat requested them. At Newcastle, the seat I was in was again claimed and now there seemed to be no other seats left. Being pregnant and tired, I did not feel able to stand and so asked the woman to move. She was aggressive and confrontational about it and I wound up loudly stating that were I not pregnant, I would stand but had booked a seat because I needed it. She vacated the seat angrily, scattering shitty wipes on the seat as she left.

So - was I being unreasonable to ask her to move? It would certainly have been easier for an obviously pregnant woman, travelling alone, to find a seat somewhere on the crowded train. But I could not face carrying my bags down the train again and was feeling paranoid about bashing my bump!

Was she being unreasonable in expecting other people to accomodate her on a Friday evening given that she had not reserved seats for her DC? The train guard said as much when she asked that he sort seats out for her. I think that had she been polite she would have been perfectly reasonable to try it on. Had she seemed in any way grateful I suspect I would have tried a bit harder to find a seat (e.g. by actually looking in the next carriage).

Or were the other passengers surrounding this being unreasonable in not offering their seats to resolve the situation?

OP posts:
nooka · 03/09/2008 19:05

I've always had a family railcard when traveling by train with my two, even when they were little. It is usually cheaper, and I think for a journey over an hour or so you really need to be able to guarantee that you are sitting together, preferably in the family coach. We have had some very happy journeys, and people have been very kind to the children (playing cards with them, chatting with them etc).

But I would also expect the guard to check that people were in their reserved seats, so that you are not the one making the fuss (which can be very awkward). I have certainly been told that I would have to move at a particular station, and of course I have. When taking long journeys by myself I usually switch off with a book, so probably wouldn't notice who was standing I am afraid.

lingle · 03/09/2008 19:10

Hurray, have just reread the original post and realised that, in fact, what happened is that:

  1. little boy was asleep in the wrong seat
  2. two men moved for him and sibling and stood in the corridor
  3. Pregnant woman also moved for him not once but twice and felt bad even when forced to ask his mother to move (I guess he'd woken by then).

OK, it all went pear-shaped from there as the boy's mum had clearly lost the plot and abused the OP, who was her main ally, but at least I don't want to emigrate any more.

[cheers up. banishes earlier vision of a coach-load of adults doing nothing except smugly clasping their reservation cards as a sleeping toddler was awoken from his nap].

Blandmum · 03/09/2008 19:16

I would have said no. If it were a short trip, then I would be as flexible as I could. But if I have have booked a seat, I'd rather sit in it.

I would stand for someone who was old and frail or having a disability or heaviliy pg

NickiSue · 03/09/2008 19:18

Nickisue, that is awful. If ever anyone had a case for being bumped up to first class you did!

Upwind - I've always thought of myself as a first class gal lol! Nice to see someone thinks the same

Upwind · 03/09/2008 19:45

In a way, I wish I'd not mentioned my pregnancy in the OP as I suspect there would then have been more posts on her side. It is possible that she did not realise I am knocked up, though I am told it is very obvious and the reasons I did not feel able to stand are not really relevant. I had booked the seat, so it should have been my choice as to whether or not to give it away.

I am saying this having read the thread, before I started it, I was not really sure who was being unreasonable!

OP posts:
Janos · 03/09/2008 20:11

I'm also very pleased to hear about the family railcard - didn't realise I could use it with DS. I may get one!

Upwind. Even if you weren't pregnant, she should have moved. You are very definitely not unreasonable!

Twelvelegs · 03/09/2008 20:17

Just returned from Thailand where on ANY train people immediately stood up to allow me (pregnant), my children, my parents all sit. This was without question and with a very big and inviting smile.
I would imagine there were many people on that train who could have done without a seat which would have meant you, the Mother and the toddler could have sat down.
God there's so much worng with this country.

lingle · 05/09/2008 18:28

Exactly Twelvelegs. .

Upwind, you were definitely NBU.
But it's the fact that you FELT a bit unreasonable in claiming what was clearly yours and what you (after standing for some time) genuinely needed that makes you a nice human being if you follow me. So you did the right thing to accommodate her even though she....shall we say... lacked charm.

Mothers should be kind to the sleeping children of even unpleasant parents. After all, what could the sleeping tot have done - change parent?

Heifer · 05/09/2008 18:41

Unfortunately I have leart the hard way regarding claiming my pre booked seat. In the past I have let people stay in my booked seat only to be shifted on by others, so these days (to people who know me shock) I politely say, excuse me, you are in my seat I'm afraid, and smile...

My mum was quite embarassed last time she travelled with me but I was polite but firm. I also now ask for the window to be open/closed when appropriate on the smaller trains.. I am no pushover me... (this is soo not true usually)...

Tippychick · 05/09/2008 20:07

I think if I was the OP I would have addressed the whole carriage, there were surely people there better equipped to jump in and offer seats? Involving a member of staff with half a brain should have meant that a space could have been found or that the staff memeber could have appealed to other passengers on your behalf. Or waited till the next stop and slapped a "reserved" notice on the first seat to be vacated for you. I think with hindsight you should have asked for your seat straight off, explainng you're pg, and offered to call the guard to ask if the family could be sorted out together somewhere. But hindsight's always 20:20 right ?
I agree with Heifer, polite but firm. I go a bit Joyce Grenfell now when faced with situations like this and just come out with the request to move/open window/carry bags with a steely glare then murmur "how kind" . I'm actually picturing myself with travelling tweeds, a trunk and kid gloves as I do it, it amuses me on long journeys
I think I need to buy a car

outofmydepth12 · 05/09/2008 23:09

YANBU, she should have put the toddler in her lap. I know its not comfortable - I've done it but I don't think its right to make a pregnant woman stand especially if she's booked seat.

I was on a train with DD who was just 2 in the run up to Christmas. Although I'd reserved a seat they hadn't put the reservations up so they were unenforcable. There were no seats and I was nearly in tears trying to hold my DD who was sleeping. An elderly lady got up and offered me her seat - I tried to refuse as she was a bit unsteady on her feet and she admitted she was and did sit down again but then offered ot take DD on her lap and proceeded to do so. She turned out to be a ex-paediatric (sp?) nurse and DD had a lovely time with her. It was sad though that no one else felt able to offer a seat.

SixSpotBurnet · 05/09/2008 23:12

I've often been in the situation of having reserved four seats for myself and three DSs but having to have one of them on my lap to make space for someone who clearly needs to sit down but hasn't had the sense to book a seat. I don't think you were being unreasonable at all; she could have had her toddler on her lap.

ilovemydog · 05/09/2008 23:15

I take the train from Bristol - London quite frequently and can say that the mistake you made was taking matters into your own hands.

Someone is in your allocated seat - take it up with the Guard. Not your problem. End of story.

It's the train company's problem to sort out.

handlemecarefully · 05/09/2008 23:23

The mother was in the wrong - whilst I sympathise with her predicament, I would not contemplate a train journey with my small dc's without first having reserved their seats. It is elementary

edam · 05/09/2008 23:27

The woman who refused to get out of the OP's seat was clearly BU.

I was on a crowded commuter train back from London last week with ds (not an inter city so no reservations possible) and luckily met a LOVELY man who gave up his seat so we could sit down, ds on my lap. I was very grateful. (Hadn't actually planned on travelling in rush hour.)

handlemecarefully · 05/09/2008 23:28

I have read more of the thread and discovered that you can't book seats for under 5's. I'm feeling a little more empathy for the mum now. Travelling solo with small children is also the pits!

edam · 05/09/2008 23:31

You can if you buy a ticket, HMC. You don't have to buy a ticket for an under five year old but then you are choosing to take the risk that there won't be enough seats.

Family railcards are the way to go. 1/3 off fares for parents and children.

berolina · 05/09/2008 23:35

In Germany all under 6s travel free and you can book seats for them at (I think) something like 3 euro per seat. And the trains are (usually) on time and arely extremely overfull.

I moan about Germany but it is Public Transport Paradise.

berolina · 05/09/2008 23:35

rarely

expatinscotland · 05/09/2008 23:37

I couldn't agree more, berolina.

My first experiences of using public transport were in Germany and France.

Then I came here and got a rude shock .

edam · 05/09/2008 23:43

I suspect you'll find that's because the Germans and the French, bless them, have this funny little habit of investing in railways. So unlike our own dear government(s).

expatinscotland · 05/09/2008 23:46

they are still nationalised in Germany and France, no?

i did notice they are so much better quality for the money you pay, FWIW.

handlemecarefully · 05/09/2008 23:49

There is a lot of ill informed smuggery on this thread.

Reminds me of my recent journey form LHR to Boston. 5 hours into the journey I was just congratulating myself / thanking God re. how well it was all going with 4 year old ds and 6 year old dd when the air hostess leaned over to my dh and told him she had received a complaint. Apparently the man in the seat just over the aisle from ds (constantly glued to his laptop - why didn't he go business class, cheapskate) had objected to ds making intermittent small explosion noises as he played computer battleships on the inflight entertainment. Ds was doing this so quietly I hadn't even registered it.

Never mind that he had sat still for 5 hours, not so much as whinged / whined for a second and had barely left his seat (2 loo breaks). Well an incredulous dh shared this 'complaint' with me. I think he wished he hadn't...

I let 'The Suit' have it with both barrels.

Half an hour later the suit apologised to us - he said that he had got it wrong. Damn straight he had.

Travelling with small children is difficult - that is if they are normal children, rather than terrified simpering personalityless demi-kids who have been quashed into total submission by their parents.

I'm all for keeping order and discipline - but children are a different species of human (okay - I am exaggerating ) - some allowances need to be made

God I am arsey tonight!

And the more I read this thread the more I think that the mum described in the OP was probably being a bit defensive and rude but was stressed to the gills and deserved some slack.

And I would have given up my seat - if pregnant I would have asked told the guard to find me alternative seating

handlemecarefully · 05/09/2008 23:50

And I agree with lingle who is the poster I would like to be

3andnomore · 05/09/2008 23:52

german public is fab....god a real shock when I moved over here...
I mean there are just really simmple things that I don't get....like...those trains that they know will be full...why don't they add a few carriages to them....I mean why use tiny trains when you know it will be shockablock...

Until I moved to the UK I never really understood the need for a car...in Germany you really don't need a car in germany in most towns....