If you have not reserved seats on a train can you reasonably expect other passengers to stand to accomodate you and your DC?

[Upwind]

I went on a long train journey on Friday afternoon & had reserved a seat. When I had lugged my bags up the length of the very long train to get to it, I found a sleeping toddler in my seat. Her mother asked me to sit elsewhere and she made the same request of the men who had booked the seat she and her DS were in. The men she had ousted stood in the corridor.

There were no seats available at rush hour that were not booked for most of my journey, and I moved twice in an effort to accomodate the family. When my ticket was inspected I was told I would have to move to my allocated seat if another passenger claimed theirs and I heard the guard clearly explaining to the mother that she would have to move if the people who booked her seat requested them. At Newcastle, the seat I was in was again claimed and now there seemed to be no other seats left. Being pregnant and tired, I did not feel able to stand and so asked the woman to move. She was aggressive and confrontational about it and I wound up loudly stating that were I not pregnant, I would stand but had booked a seat because I needed it. She vacated the seat angrily, scattering shitty wipes on the seat as she left.

So - was I being unreasonable to ask her to move? It would certainly have been easier for an obviously pregnant woman, travelling alone, to find a seat somewhere on the crowded train. But I could not face carrying my bags down the train again and was feeling paranoid about bashing my bump!

Was she being unreasonable in expecting other people to accomodate her on a Friday evening given that she had not reserved seats for her DC? The train guard said as much when she asked that he sort seats out for her. I think that had she been polite she would have been perfectly reasonable to try it on. Had she seemed in any way grateful I suspect I would have tried a bit harder to find a seat (e.g. by actually looking in the next carriage).

Or were the other passengers surrounding this being unreasonable in not offering their seats to resolve the situation?

Slightly off the original post, but is there anyone else who thinks that my mil is completely mad suggesting that 'it would be fun' taking ds to Switzerland by train. If she's arranging that, I'm flying - or at least booking a seat in the following train!

Yes your MIL is totally mad.

My father does this sometimes - asks us why we don't take the children to Venice by train (from Paris). Not really worth responding too (but then he is my father - I can ignore him. Ruder to ignore in laws).

what age is your ds?

YANBU. If you are on a long journey like that with children you need to book a seat, not just hope for the best. While it might be nice if a man stood up and gave her the seat, I don't see why they should. They may well be planning to do a lot of work on the journey and if they have had the forethought to book their seat they shouldn't feel obliged to give it to someone who didn't bother.
I once had an argument with a woman who was allowing her toddler to lie down over 2 seats, no seats were booked and I wasn't suggesting that she sat on the mother's knee, merely that she had one seat only. The mother was very abusive.
There is no point in having a booking system if you are made to feel dreadful for taking your seat. I think the mistake of the OP was being kind to start with, I shall learn by that and make them move as soon as I get on.

agree with anna8888. It is ok for shorter journeys, but i would never expect someone to give up a seat ifit meant they had to stand for 3 hours for example

mistlethrush - my friends took their DS across Europe by train and claimed it was great fun. I think they had their own private cabin which made it more comfortable. If your MIL intends that you sit in airline seats all the way to Switzerland, then she is indeed completely mad

i haven't found it any 'fun' to take small kids any long distance on public transport.

often, too, the toilets are out of order/use on the trains as well.

hence, why we use the car. but then, for us to get to most services readily on offer in cities it does mean travelling some distance.

AbbeyA - I think you are right, posession is 9/10ths of the law and I should have insisted on claiming my seat. The DD was sound asleep though and I did not have the heart to disturb her nap [sucker emoticon]

I would feel the same, Upwind but this all goes to show that you have to be hard hearted. I have travelled the length of England several times with children and I felt that it was essential to book as we could neither stand or be separated. As a lone adult I might take a chance, but if I had booked I would want the seat. Emotional blackmail is unfair.

Well, I don't feel you have a responsibility to keep children quiet on a train.It is public transport, for the public, not a bed, or an office.

I agree that it is your responsibility to arrange a seat for yourself in advance, but by the same token, if you NEED to sleep/work, you should make other arrangements that might not involve a carriage full of people that might disrupt you.

LOL Anna at the thought of Paris-Venice by train with toddler

they can't only sell tickets for the number of seats that are available because you don't buy a ticket for a particular grain. That is the joy of train travel - you can buy a ticket and travel on whichever train you want. Commuting would be even more of a nightmare than it is anyway - imagine being stuck in a meeting and then being told that you were unable to go home because all the trains for the evening were fully booked, even though you have a season ticket which costs x thousands of pounds.

No of course wannabe - d'oh!

if you want to travel on a particular train then that is of course your perogative and you then have the right to book a seat on that particular train.

Why anyone would want to travel with small children in rush hour though is beyond me. For a start it costs about 3 times as much as savers and super savers are not valid at certain times.

i think if you are on a trasin with children you do have a responsibility for them sitting as quietly as possible

short of gaffer tape of course but at least making some preplanned effort to keep them busy and quiet and standing as little nonsense on the shrieking and bickering front as possible

I'm wondering, Anna8888 how I keep a toddler quiet for eight hours on a train? Have you ever taken more than one child on a long train journey? If you haven't, you have no idea...

I regularly travel with three children by train and plane, yes.

agree. It is a train not a playground. And while I don't think that children should be seen and not heard I don't think it is acceptable to think that children should be allowed to screach/run up and down rail carriages disturbing everyone else.

Coming back on the eurostar there were three little brats who insisted on running up and down not only our carriage but through the doors into the neighbouring carriages as well, shreaking as they went (they were about 10 so absolutely no excuse) and their parents just sat there giggling and saying "now come and sit down, you'll disturb people, but made no effort to actually control the little swines. I'm afraid I eventually lost it and as they came hurtling up the carriage I stood in front of the door and refused to move and said "this is a train not a playground. And there are other people on here besides yourselves. Now why don't you go and sit down and learn to behave." they scuttled off pretty sharpish and behaved for the rest of the journey.

Too many people seem to think that being a child gives you licence to do what the hell you want.

I get cranky when there are very noisy children in the quiet carriage. Pretty much everyone else there will have intended to sleep or work.

Nicky the key is lots of entertainment. colouring, reading, little toys, snacks, whatever it is they like to do that keeps them entertained. portable dvd player if necessary.

I've just been on holiday with my 5 yo and we had to go on an 8 hour plane journey. he did colouring, played games, played on dh's ds, watched the entertainment, had a little nap, played with some cars, looked at the map of where we were going, and as we were coming in to land the woman behind us said to me "can I just say that I am so impressed with how your little boy has been behaved, his behavior was fantastic and he is a credit to you.". the earlier children are taught how to behave, the more likely they will. obviously if train journey is a one off then they're not used to it but the more you do it the more you should be able to expect them to behave.

why do people always come out with this if you are saying x then you havent had kids

agree Wannabe.

We stayed in a hotel this summer that doesn't normally take children under 12. We had our 3, 10 and 13 year olds with us.

At the beginning of the stay the hotel staff were very stuffy, telling us that we had to eat dinner at 7pm because they couldn't have children in the restaurant after 8pm etc. But they quickly calmed down and by the end of our stay (4 nights) we had had compliments from nearly all the staff about how well the children behaved.

(we did need to remind them quite often, nonetheless, about our expectations ).

I stand corrected then Anna8888 - and much respect to you I make the kids stay in their seats with food and lots of activities but keeping them quiet is another matter. Story CDs on the ipod is good for the older one but the toddler IS going to cry when I stop her sitting in someone else's seat or running up and down the carriage. Sometimes on the train (or the plane) you feel like a pariah because your children are just, well, being children!