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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you have not reserved seats on a train can you reasonably expect other passengers to stand to accomodate you and your DC?

155 replies

Upwind · 03/09/2008 10:39

I went on a long train journey on Friday afternoon & had reserved a seat. When I had lugged my bags up the length of the very long train to get to it, I found a sleeping toddler in my seat. Her mother asked me to sit elsewhere and she made the same request of the men who had booked the seat she and her DS were in. The men she had ousted stood in the corridor.

There were no seats available at rush hour that were not booked for most of my journey, and I moved twice in an effort to accomodate the family. When my ticket was inspected I was told I would have to move to my allocated seat if another passenger claimed theirs and I heard the guard clearly explaining to the mother that she would have to move if the people who booked her seat requested them. At Newcastle, the seat I was in was again claimed and now there seemed to be no other seats left. Being pregnant and tired, I did not feel able to stand and so asked the woman to move. She was aggressive and confrontational about it and I wound up loudly stating that were I not pregnant, I would stand but had booked a seat because I needed it. She vacated the seat angrily, scattering shitty wipes on the seat as she left.

So - was I being unreasonable to ask her to move? It would certainly have been easier for an obviously pregnant woman, travelling alone, to find a seat somewhere on the crowded train. But I could not face carrying my bags down the train again and was feeling paranoid about bashing my bump!

Was she being unreasonable in expecting other people to accomodate her on a Friday evening given that she had not reserved seats for her DC? The train guard said as much when she asked that he sort seats out for her. I think that had she been polite she would have been perfectly reasonable to try it on. Had she seemed in any way grateful I suspect I would have tried a bit harder to find a seat (e.g. by actually looking in the next carriage).

Or were the other passengers surrounding this being unreasonable in not offering their seats to resolve the situation?

OP posts:
lingle · 03/09/2008 11:06

May I ask whether those of you who seem to think it's no big deal travelling with a toddler and not enough seats have ever had one? They don't sleep in your lap any more you know, and you can't buy them a ticket.

I'm glad the OP is more reflective. You're absolutely right, OP, you'll be her one day (except you'll know about the family railcard solution and you'll be polite)

Yes, the mum was unreasonable. That is what happens when you are at the end of your tether. And when you get lectured by a train guard on how you should have known better than to travel with your children at that time (did he think she was doing it for fun?). I want to give her a hug.

Dropdeadfred · 03/09/2008 11:07

Once on a long train journey I had pre-booked seats for myself and two dds. (aged 5 and 3)..but a man and his teenage son refused to relinquish the seats.....to cut a long long long upsetting story short...eventually the guard came along and escorted myself and the dds to First Class..with complimentary coffee and biscuits...

SugaryBits · 03/09/2008 11:07

My mum recently took my two boys on holiday. She booked and paid for tickets for both of them so they would be guaranteed seats. Unless you are prepared to sit with kids on your lap I think the only way to ensure a seat is to pay for a ticket, even if they are under 5.

zippitippitoes · 03/09/2008 11:07

nothing to stop you nuying a child a ticket

no law against it

if you want to guarantee a seat

poppy34 · 03/09/2008 11:09

lingle - per eurostar you can buy a ticket - just suggests you put age in as 4 even if not.. that doesnt get away from fact its a bloody expensive way of ensuirng a seat..

Anna8888 · 03/09/2008 11:09

I frequently travel by train (Eurostar and Thalys) with my daughter who, being under four, does not need to have a seat paid for her and sits on my knee.

I never expect other people to give up their seat to give her one. Sometimes, when the train isn't full, the passenger reserved next to me moves of his/her own accord to leave me a free seat for her. And sometimes I move to another seat nearby but fully understand that if the passenger reserved on that seat shows up I must move back to my own reserved seat.

poppy34 · 03/09/2008 11:09

agree with fondant -either family tickets or discounted fares for kids over 1 or somethign rather than 4/5 or whenever rail companies do it

nailpolish · 03/09/2008 11:11

there wasw no reason at all that the child couldnt have sat on his mums lap. my dd2 is 5 and could sleep on my not-very-big-lap quite easily

also, SURELY there was a man nearby who could have given his seat. if my dh was on that train (he travels a lot by train) he would have given his seat

Upwind · 03/09/2008 11:11

I suppose it is an incentive for families not to travel at rush hour? I guess that Friday afternoons are probably the busiest time on most train lines. And if you do need seats for DC, you can just pay for them.

OP posts:
nailpolish · 03/09/2008 11:12

lingle

what a nice story
i often find teenagers are lovely in these situations
when i had a buggy it was always nice teenagers who helped me on the bus or up/down steps etc

kitbit · 03/09/2008 11:14

But she could at least have stood up and given you her own seat even if the sleeping toddler was left to sleep?

nailpolish · 03/09/2008 11:15

yes good point kitbit

Anna8888 · 03/09/2008 11:16

I think this thread is extraordinary.

You reserve a seat on a train - it is yours for the journey. There are no extenuating circumstances for tired toddlers.

Although I have actually abandoned my seat of my own volition for the bar to let the poor harassed business person in the seat next to me desperately trying to concentrate on an urgent powerpoint presentation have a little peace and quiet.

Zazette · 03/09/2008 11:18

You CAN buy reservations for children - as someone said, the answer is a family railcard - it is often actually cheaper, IME, to buy railcard tickets and reservations for me and my 2 kids than to just buy a normal ticket for me.

nicky111 · 03/09/2008 11:18

Yanbu but I would add that a long train journey with under fives is a nightmare. I am a veteran of 8 hour journeys between glasgow and london and there are times when I do put other passengers out. I can't help it, I'm afraid. Most recently a very kind lady gave up two airline seats so my queasy 4-year-old could lie down. She was then very travel sick all over the seat and floor. I was also dealing with an over-excited 18 month-old and this on a very crowded, hot train. People were very kind and helpful but I also had to put up with some woman muttering under her breath about kids as she was trying to arrange her social life on Facebook. Don't underestimate how awful train journeys can be with young kids.

Advice - get a family railcard and book seats for toddlers, then if one wants to sleep you can stand while they have two seats. ALo try to get the seats next to the disabled area as you can have the buggy up and there is space forkids can sit on floor and play games (obviously move if someone disabled gets on!)

And never NEVER travel on a Friday evening.

lingle · 03/09/2008 11:19

When I was in the position of being stuck with two small kids on the train with no tickets, it was because I had to rush to visit my sick mother as my father was unable to cope.

Had I been lectured on planning my journey better, I would have burst into tears. Loudly. With snot. Shame on anyone who would sit in their seat thinking "well, she should have planned better....".

Basic good manners dictate that you give up your seat for those who need it more. In this case, both OP and the other lady really needed it.

Stay compassionate, OP.

nervousal · 03/09/2008 11:20

nail polish - why should a MAN be expected to give up a seat???

LilRedWG · 03/09/2008 11:24

Yes Lingle, it may be that the other lady needed it. From the sounds of it though she was just a rude obnoxious woman.

But she could have had the sleeping toddler on her lap and her DS could have stood - thereby freeing up two seats.

AuraofDora · 03/09/2008 11:24

yanbu
she was a bit well out of order all the kwrong attitude

railcard ..check
booked seats..check
its not rocket ticket science i agree with anna8888

mayorquimby · 03/09/2008 11:24

no, in short F* her.
i'm sick of people who have children think that entitles them to things ahead of others.
she had the option of booking seats if she needed them.
you didn't make her sit in seats that were clearly reserved.
if she decided that it wasn't worth her time/money to reserve a seat and assumed that because she had children her right to a seat took priority over those who actually had reserved a seat she deserved everything she got.

nailpolish · 03/09/2008 11:24

nervousal

its called chivalry. the woman in question was pg

btw i would give up my seat for a pg woman too

lingle · 03/09/2008 11:30

lilRedWG

Yes, the lady should have stood up.

But all my friends (and I) have sometimes lost the plot under extreme strain since having children.

Have we really reached a point in this country where people think that as a matter of principle you shouldn't give up your seat for someone who needs it because "it's yours" or the other person should have planned better? If so, I want to emigrate.

Upwind · 03/09/2008 11:31

The mother was not pregnant so far as I know - reading this has convinsed me that she should have - been polite and got her DS to stand/sit in her lap or stood herself.

Best of all it has persuaded me that I was not being unreasonable and can stop feeling guilty about it

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 03/09/2008 11:31

if i have reserved a seat for along journey on a friday night then yes i would expect it to be mine

nailpolish · 03/09/2008 11:31

why dont they just provide more carriages? pisses me right off

they know its busy at these times - but they still insist on have too small trains