If you have not reserved seats on a train can you reasonably expect other passengers to stand to accomodate you and your DC?

[Upwind]

I went on a long train journey on Friday afternoon & had reserved a seat. When I had lugged my bags up the length of the very long train to get to it, I found a sleeping toddler in my seat. Her mother asked me to sit elsewhere and she made the same request of the men who had booked the seat she and her DS were in. The men she had ousted stood in the corridor.

There were no seats available at rush hour that were not booked for most of my journey, and I moved twice in an effort to accomodate the family. When my ticket was inspected I was told I would have to move to my allocated seat if another passenger claimed theirs and I heard the guard clearly explaining to the mother that she would have to move if the people who booked her seat requested them. At Newcastle, the seat I was in was again claimed and now there seemed to be no other seats left. Being pregnant and tired, I did not feel able to stand and so asked the woman to move. She was aggressive and confrontational about it and I wound up loudly stating that were I not pregnant, I would stand but had booked a seat because I needed it. She vacated the seat angrily, scattering shitty wipes on the seat as she left.

So - was I being unreasonable to ask her to move? It would certainly have been easier for an obviously pregnant woman, travelling alone, to find a seat somewhere on the crowded train. But I could not face carrying my bags down the train again and was feeling paranoid about bashing my bump!

Was she being unreasonable in expecting other people to accomodate her on a Friday evening given that she had not reserved seats for her DC? The train guard said as much when she asked that he sort seats out for her. I think that had she been polite she would have been perfectly reasonable to try it on. Had she seemed in any way grateful I suspect I would have tried a bit harder to find a seat (e.g. by actually looking in the next carriage).

Or were the other passengers surrounding this being unreasonable in not offering their seats to resolve the situation?

its all to do with logistics and averages and having carriages in certain places

zippi would you give your reserved seat to a pg woman who was standing/

YANBU

Why didn't the mum stand and put the toddler in her own seat! OR at the very least put the toddler on her lap; I don't understand why she needed all 4 seats?

You are much too kind I would have told her to shift immediately (unless of course there were heaps of unreserved seats, easier to let it go!)

yes i probably would

There is no real way of judging how badly an individual person needs their seat either - even a healthy looking man might actually be quite ill or simply suffer from a bad back or some other physical impairment that makes standing difficult. The onus on them is to reserve a seat or not travel at the busiest time.

Having DC with you or being pregnant does not automatically mean you have the greatest need to sit down. Though it would be kind if those who did feel able were to offer!

i'd have asked her to move the first time and if she didn't i'd have gotten the guard.

you booked the seat becaus you needed it.

linge the whole point of reserving a seat is so that it is yours, no matter who else is on the train.

Different matter if the seats aren't reserved, but if the seats arereerved then rightfully that seat is theirs, and why should they have to give it up for someone else? Of course, you'd hope most people, being kind, would if there was someone who really really needed it, but otherwise it is strange to discriminate based on age or gender as to who is more deserving of a seat.

so why did no one give the woman a seat?

You can't judge how much others need their seat but you can judge that you probably don't need yours as much as someone else (not a criticism of the OP who did need the seat).

And you should bring up your children to do the same.

i dontr nthink having children or being pregnant necessarily makes for entitlement tho

you can be unfit and look fine

i get low blood sugar levels and if i was like that on the train i wouldnt want to stand then

I agree. You can't tell when someone needs to sit. I used to hang out with a bloke when we were both young and fit, but that young man had been in a serious climbing accident a few years before and still had rods in his spine and needed to wear a brace on his calf because he no longer could control it.

He could not stand for long periods, indeed it was little short of a miracle he was able to walk again at all and he'd spent 3 years in a wheelchair, but you'd never know that from looking at him.

This thread is so weird. You reserve a seat - it's yours for the journey. Full stop.

The issue about "giving up your seat for someone more deserving" only arises when seats are not reserved.

YANBU at all. But she was!
Yes,someone should have offered the toddler a seat. But nobody speaks on trains these days, so, am not surprisesd that didn't happen.

Exactly. You can't tell who might need the seat more than you, and a young man could just as easily need to sit down as a pregnant woman.

I would give up my seat if someone asked me nicely and explained why they couldn't stand up, even if they where a man and I had to move my DS for them.

I wouldn't like it if someone expected me to move or got annoyed or cross that I hadn't moved without explaining the situation though.

What annoys me is that they put all the reserved seats in a few carriages so it is crowded hot and noisy while there are empty carriages full of non reserved seats further along! And there are always about five 1st class carriages too. But noone will move because they have reserved that seat and it is 'theirs!' bizarre.

I agree Anna888, but if I had reserved a seat and I then saw someone obviously struggling weith standing up I would give them my seat, but only because I really don't have any need to sit down apart from the comfort factor.

Well, this wouldn't be an issue if the train companies only sold tickets for the seats available.

another reason why i usually pull the iPod out and start blasting music the second i get on trains.

actually, i usually avoid them at all costs these days, especially now as there is a direct coach service from the town 10 miles away to Glasgow.

nicky I'd move if there where empty carriages full of unreserved seats!

It's good that they put all the reserved seats together, makes it easier for people without reservations to look for a seat to sit on.

oh yes expat me too, if there is a coach service and it is cheaper than the train I will opt for that every time, and in these new coaches the seats are huge and comfy with loads of leg room, and you're guaranteed a seat!

Anna888, so you think it was absolutely fine that no-one else offered to stand?

Even if the train company "only sold tickets for the seats available" families without reservations might really struggle to find seats together. Besides, when I travel without a reservation it is with the understanding that I might not be able to get a seat. I wouldn't dream of doing it just now!

i would never sit in a reserved seat tho because i think it is rude to put someone in the position of having to ask you to move

that's what i love about it, OMDB. they don't allow standing in the coach and only sell as many tickets as there are seats.

everyone gets a seat and rides through happy. there is storage above the seats and in the holds outside if needed.

needless to say, it's proved a roaring success. people are even willing to stump up a couple of quid extra for not having to bother with those fecking cattle carstrains from hell.

lingle - yes absolutely fine.

When you take a train, it is your responsibility to buy tickets and reserve as many places as you will require for the journey.

If you are young, fit, healthy and childfree, it is fine to risk not reserving a seat (but you understand that you may well have to stand). If you are travelling with children, you must reserve a seat for you and, if you don't want to take your child on your knee, your child.

It is not anyone's else's responsibility.

You also (as I demonstrated in an earlier post) have a responsibility to ensure your toddler doesn't disturb the rest of the carriage - people often need to work/sleep on a train.