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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Message to the mother in Starbucks in Derby , if you are a mnetter. Please don't call your child....

231 replies

AvenaLife · 26/08/2008 17:27

stupid or a weirdo. It's really not very nice and it made my son and I really sad to hear this. Also, please do't rush her when she's eating because you have things to do. Telling her to hurry up 7 times in 5 minutes is OTT. Would it have killed you to be patient? It was not as if she was eating slowly though was it? Then you moaned at her for getting chocolate under her fingernails.

Rant over.

OP posts:
WilyWombat · 27/08/2008 09:22

I think what upsets me more than anything about this is the childs response...if you had seen her giving some lip and attitude back, whilst you may not have used the words the mother did, you would have though "oh yeah ive been there". I just find "quiet and upset" really disturbing - glad this calmed down Avena

wahwah · 27/08/2008 09:25

AvenaLife, I think that you are right to be upset and not to be an apologist for emotionally damaging behaviour.

GooseyLoosey · 27/08/2008 09:45

I would admit to once calling my dd "stupid". I regret doing it. She hid from me in M&S and it took me some time to find her - I was rather hysterical by the time I did and really was not at my most lucid. I did it while I was holding her in my arms crying.

I agree that generally such things are bad but we all have our moments.

msdemeanor · 27/08/2008 09:49

Iamnot. I didn't say you said it was abuse. What I did say is that you - and others - are making big assumptions about this woman and her parenting on one person's very sketchy report of a few minutes in a cafe. The woman herself almost certainly isn't reading this, so it won't bother her, but this belief that if a mother isn't perfect in her every interaction with her child then she is wicked through and through really does piss me off and I think it makes life harder and more stressful for people. Those without sin, eh?

Kewcumber · 27/08/2008 09:52

Msdeamenor - don't you think thats a tad of an overreaction the OP decribed the calling of the child Stupid as "not very nice" not "Cruella de VIlle must beat her childrne daily when we're not vigilantly watching her".

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe · 27/08/2008 10:00

FGS I never said I was without sin and God knows I am making many mistakes with my children. You implied I said it was abuse.

I never made any assumptions about this woman.

I said it was mean to call a child stupid as children remember things like that.

I said it would be nice to live in a world where we could all support each other and those that needed it could ask for help from a stranger, as I did indeed do myself yesterday.

HonoriaGlossop · 27/08/2008 10:46

but msdemeanour are people making assumptions? The OP was stating how what she actually HEARD and SAW in those few minutes in the cafe, was wrong and upsetting to see.

You don't have to be perfect in every interaction with your child, NO-ONE is, BUT there's a huge difference between being tetchy with them and telling them "You are so weird, you are so stupid". That is nasty, inappropriate and damaging.

Finding that nasty, inappropriate and damaging does not mean that the person hearing it sees themselves as perfect, I don't get that extrapolation.

KayHarker · 27/08/2008 10:48

No-one actually thinks it's a good idea to speak unkindly to your own children. It sometimes happens, and shouldn't be approved of, but isn't crime of the century.

However, I find myself reading this sort of MN thread as 'Tell me how awful this is so I can bask in the feeling of being righteous for not approving'. It's veering rather close to smuggery, tbh.

HonoriaGlossop · 27/08/2008 10:54

It's not smug to be appalled at children being treated abusively. Blimey, it's what I would hope every decent adult would feel. How sad for children it is if we think "You are so weird, you are so stupid" is NOT appalling.

And yes, being told you are weird and stupid is abusive.

KayHarker · 27/08/2008 10:58

It's not smug to be appalled by it. It is a little smug to post a thread telling everyone.

wahwah · 27/08/2008 11:11

Really? You read it as smug? Blimey, I felt sorry for Avena and her son for witnessing something that was distressing to them as well as the poor child on the receiving end.

spokette · 27/08/2008 11:15

I was walking towards my car a few months ago and a family of father, mother, two daughters (approx age 3 and 6) were walking towards me. The older girl was dawdling and the father turned to her and screamed "Hurry up you f*king,stupid bitch". I was shellshocked and glared at him.

No doubt I would be accused of being judgey, not knowing what kind of day they had had, blah, blah, blah but imho, nobody has the right to speak to an adult, let alone a little girl like that. I was called a bitch by a male bully many years ago and it left me shaking and terrified so what must it be like for a vulnerable child who is subjected to this by the very people who are suppose to protect and care for her?

I agree with the OP that the name calling is totally unacceptable.

HonoriaGlossop · 27/08/2008 11:16

don't see the difference, personally. posting a thread is about how strongly you feel about something and you want to share it with people and talk about it. Sometimes there's no RL person to talk to, to get it out of your system so people put it on here.

ImnotMamaGbutsheLovesMe · 27/08/2008 11:17

Take no notice, Avena.

I read your post as a concerned parent. Not smug at all.

LittleMyDancing · 27/08/2008 11:25

oh for goodness sake, you have no idea about any of the circumstances or background of this woman and her dd, and yet you post a deeply judgy thread about her and make it so that if she is a MNetter, she'll see this thread and be really upset, and know it was her, as well?

You didn't have to say where the Starbucks was, did you?

If she'd come on here and posted 'I had a rubbish day, just found out my dad has terminal cancer, I was late for work and my boss threatened to fire me, and I yelled at my DD and called her stupid for no reason' the thread would be full of people saying 'never mind, we all have days like this, give her a big hug and apologise and it's all over'.

But now it's full of smug judginess and if the poor woman is a MNetter she's probably weeping into her coffee right now at this thread.

My mum is a psychotherapist, and according to her the evidence is clear: ill treatment of children only results in mental/emotional damage if it's sustained - one instance of calling your child stupid will not damage them.

And if you 'debrief' with them afterwards, and explain and apologise, then it's even less likely to even be remembered, let alone cause any damage.

Noone likes seeing children being yelled at, but come on, people. Get off those high horses.

lou031205 · 27/08/2008 11:34

What you haven't thought about is that you have decided that this woman sees nothing wrong in her actions and that they were normal for her. She could have reflected on a really bad day when her parenting wasn't what she wanted it to be.

I personally think your son could have been taught a much greater lesson on compassion, if your response to his question had been along the lines of "no I would never want to call you something like that, but Mummies and Daddies aren't perfect, and we sometimes do things which we later realise was wrong, and it makes us sad".

I sincerely hope that you didn't condemn that mother to your son, encouraging him to judge in a snapshot what the mother's character is.

KayHarker · 27/08/2008 11:34

Well, has anyone on the thread agreed that verbally abusing your child is acceptable? Everyone appears to be agreeing that it's not, but a number of people have said that at times of stress, it sometimes happens.

So, basically, imo, the OP isn't being unreasonable to find it unacceptable to do it, but I was just a bit unsure of why you would post about something that everyone would agree was out of order.

In my defense, I saw this on active convos and didn't immediately realize it was in AIBU. Now I know it is, I can thoroughly approve of the OP's vent, but really think AIBU should be renamed 'vent and countervent'.

Kewcumber · 27/08/2008 11:35

I have done things I regret with DS generally because I was tired or having a bad day. Entirely accept that someone seeing me do it would judge/disaprove etc (as I have always judged myself in thsoe situtations).

LittleMyDancing · 27/08/2008 11:41

But why come on here and put out a MESSAGE to the poor woman in the thread title, identifying her clearly to herself (if she is a MNetter)?

Just mean-minded, imo.

Maybe we should ask her to stand up so we can throw rocks at her.

And what lou said, too.

Kewcumber · 27/08/2008 11:45

don;t we all often come on and post about people who have annoyed us. I've said some rather unkind things about my mum on here on occasion.

KayHarker · 27/08/2008 11:49

well, yes, I posted some rather unkind things about my Dh and the brown stuff hit the rotating room-cooler at speed. I'm not really sure it's such a good idea any more..

LittleMyDancing · 27/08/2008 11:51

yes we do, but anonymity is the key, really, isn't it?

Kewcumber · 27/08/2008 12:07

several people on here have met my mum in RL and if she were to sign up it she could probably work out pretty quickly who I am.

Having said that I say far more nice things about her than horrid.

HonoriaGlossop · 27/08/2008 12:09

agree that the OP was possibly badly worded and too identifying. But the point remains that it is not smug, and not being on a high horse, to say that what was witnessed was abusive to the child.

Getting into wondering about the woman's 'circumstances or background' is pointless because of course this was one incident only. But it was still abusive - emotional abuse. Again, whether it results in long term damage, we can't know.

But the point is the op was talking about THIS incident, not all the other stuff.

LittleMyDancing · 27/08/2008 12:16

I could understand if the OP was 'what should i have done, should I have intervened, is this really bad or is it ok'

but it's just 'let's all talk about this mum and how terrible her parenting is'

seems a bit prurient to me, that's all.

particularly on a website that exists to support parents.

and I refuse to categorise one incident of someone calling their child stupid as emotional abuse. seems completely OTT to me.