to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

I found my NCT classes very unhelpful
I thought the teaching was poor and ironically, didn't include ENOUGH about alternative pain relief / relaxation / ways of coping / breathing
in fact this topic was not covered at all - only the different types of pain relief you could have, and the focus was on a medical birth IMO
I also felt I didn't fit in with the other parents there who were much more well off professionals than we were (they were very kind and included me in meet ups etc, I just felt I stuck out like a sore thumb)

at the time they were very expensive for dp and I
we also found it difficult to get to the venues - they were very far out from town - not everyone has a car

Hi akent - I think you could be right but the other courses in Covent Garden are all set prices and expensive at that (there's a two day for £400 and another £540 one so its probably not a typo)..
On the other hand I did have a little look around the site and there is a Band C course fairly nearby in Euston so I might think about that..

Hi jette - yes, I found the other courses in Covent Garden, too. They are very, very expensive and just don't fit what I've been told to charge.

The point of standard charges is so that you don't have to look around to find another course. I'd have expected all London courses to be at Band C.

I just couldn't face the cost for my imminent 2nd child.

It seems to me a great way to make sure you find other middle class mothers in your area!

I was a coffee group organiser for them when I had my ds. I think the coffee groups are a really good idea.

Apparently the NCT local sales are good too.

But the Classes - so so so expensive!

if you want to meet mums and make freinds with babies due/born same time as yours the coffee mornings and groups are great and you don't need to be a member. good fun too

OrangeCrush, I agree with your points too. We can afford NCT classes but I just don't justify paying that ridiculous amount of money to someone just to tell me about it all. I can go to NHS classes for free and hear something v similar, you know??

i never knew the NCT existed until after i had dd1.

couldn't have afforded the classes, anyhow.

notcitrus - your post is highlighting how ridiculous the NCT is. they didn't want you to know about the discount you could have. why aren't more people informed of this??? why?? no antenatal NCT teacher so far has answered my questions.
we should all be entitled to the services of NCT without the dire costing that is attached to it. Or is the whole point of it just aimed at 'middle class' mothers.

i didn't know either expat.

I just think the NCT are alienating themselves from so many mums out there, all because of the cost.

I did nhs ante natal and they were crap too, learnt nothing about breathing for example, and I thought we would, but I met a nice bunch of girls through that. Still in touch with a few of them 6 years on.

I am an antenatal teacher and have been reading this list with interest and quite some dismay.

On the course pricing for Covent Graden I may be able to shed some light. For many years some teachers set very high prices for their courses and when the NCT aligned all prices those teachers who had been making a substantial amount of money decided not to stay within the NCT. They are independent, can charge what they like and pay the NCT to book their courses for them. The courses are still of the standard expected of all teachers but may be much more expensive.

Hope this sheds some light.

I may be wrong but costs are to cover the ANT fee, the venue charge, the refreshments, the person who admins the course and the rest to the charity to fund further training, campaigns and to maintain the information helplines plus loads of other things.

In some areas the NHS fund NCT lead courses, in others Surestart. Scottishmum you have a valid point about being entitled to antenatal services so what would be a fair cost in your opinion?

Thanks baybeelove!
It does make the NCT look a little bad though, n'est pas?

scottishmum - as it happens, a colleague of mine is one of the local volunteers, and what she says chimes with my experience of running voluntary organisations.

Basically there's a lot fewer people running most charities etc than you might think, so I suspect there's about six people trying to keep the website going and answer all queries and recruit teachers as well as dealing with all the lobbying and stuff the NCT do. So I suspect overload and someone writing all the bumf late at night, rather than an attempt to hide discounts.

Personally I think the easiest thing to do would be have around 8 women on a course rather than six - that should decrease costs per person by a third and increase capacity.

They can't magic up a couple hundred qualified tutors overnight, but that's what's needed around the country if they're going to be able to get rid of the crap but technically qualified ones.

I'm also an NCT teacher and likewise, I'm really upset at this thread- but nonetheless very interested!
notcitrus - the only problem with offering courses to 8 couples (and some teachers do actually do that) is sometimes the courses are held at teachers' houses and it's just a matter of there being a lack of space.

jette - couldn't agree more incidentally about the price of the courses. Lots of NCT teachers feel the same and have expressed their concerns at the highest level within the NCT. What I'd also say is that it's totally outside of the control of the teachers (price setting for courses that is)... and it's a source of frustration to many of us.... likewise many of us feel that after an average of 5 or so years of training (up to 7), we are not remunerated in line with other professions....but we accept this because we love what we do, feel passionate about what we do and we are not (on the whole) doing this for the money. In my case, I gave up a very well paid career doing something I disliked to do this job, which I love. My feedback, after teaching over 80 couples, has always been very positive and it is this endorsement which makes the job worth doing. Not every teacher is the same - but that's the same in all professions.... I feel it's a pity to tar everyone with the same brush.

Baybeelove is right. The course is run by an affiliate teacher who runs it as her own business. Hopefully some text will be added to the website to explain this.

Everyone enquiring about classes should now receive information about the discounts. It's a standard form we are all supposed to send out.

What do people think is a fair price for an antenatal course? Eight sessions, two hours per session?

Message withdrawn

"we should all be entitled to the services of NCT without the dire costing that is attached to it. Or is the whole point of it just aimed at 'middle class' mothers"

Ummm... and who would pay the teacher's wages and the cost of running the charity? The money has to come from somewhere. The NCT isn't profligate with your money - I can assure you of that. You should see NCT head office: it's an appalling dump. As a teacher my hourly rate is the same as the hourly rate I was getting when I left teaching in further education - 6 years ago. Courses were MUCH cheaper in the past because some teachers were being paid feck-all. In some areas they were literally earning not much more than the minimum wage for a job that requires 3 years training.

Wanted to comment on the 'but you can get exactly the same on the NHS, so why bother paying' comments. You CAN'T get an 18 hour course on the NHS round here - it's 3 hours plus a bf session, and it's taught in classes of 20 - 30 people. Unlike NCT classes the antenatal classes at our local hospital aren't interactive - there's very little discussion (there isn't time) and you're not given information to make informed choices in relation to many things - just told 'this is what we do here'. Admittedly there are some cracking NHS classes out there - but like everthing else with the NHS it's a postcode lottery.

have posted this before on this thread, and will say so again..

there are many doulas who do one to one childbirth preparation / birth consultancy or group classes

marslady, for example, www.thebabymoon.co.uk i do one to one birth prep, as does hertsnessex.

you don;t have to go to the NHS or NCT. or any classes at all. but it is worth looking around and asking around, and asking on MN for recommendations

for all of those who feel so strongly about the NCT, email head office, they nct have just rebranded, but clearly are not addressing the fundamental issues

I went on two courses (long story), run independently by ex-NCT teachers along NCT lines. Virtually no NCT provision in N London where I am. BUT wanted to add to this thread because I loved one of the courses, the teacher was great, I met wonderful people who I still see 15 months on and it gave me some really excellent insights into the birthing process and techniques for successful bf.

The other course ... run by a very hippyish woman who got very impatient with what she perceived to be "stupid" questions - surely no question should be stupid, particularly for first timers. She was very insensitive towards me (same long story) at times and the course was waaaaay too long - 2 hours in the evening once a week for 8 weeks, a bf day and a whole weekend day. The whole course was for couples. Her mention of pethidine was limited to "pethidine, not even talking about that" - because she thought it was such a bad option. Didn't care to explain why though!

Both courses were heavily skewed towards how to have an active birth with minimum intervention, which I think a lot of first timers think they want, fair enough. You just don't know if you're going to be quick, slow or require full on intervention in advance!

I reckon a lot of it comes down to the individual giving the class...

Message withdrawn

see, if someone was not addressing my questions or concerns, in a class i was paying my hard earned cash for, i would be querying it and asking for a refund!

i think the vast majority of birth classes will aim for an active , normal birth approach, few childbirth activists are doing it from the POV of elective sections and medicalised interventionist birth. BUT i thikn with c.s rates rising , it is remiss not to discuss c.s, both emergecny and planned, i/e for placenta previa.. so women have a realistic picture

but i do thikn that the idea of a vaginal birth with as little intervention as possible should be the focus, but not at the expense of realism

sadly, women who do focus on positive birth and natural active birth often get dismissed as smug, unrealistic, lentil weaving hippies.... so you can;t win either way

allergic - you are right. Ther is no "one size fits all" approach to antenatal teaching - and that goes for private classes, NHS, doulas - you name it. Whatever anyone says, it does come down to the fact that what suits one, many not suit everyone and of course, the same goes for birth in general. It is not an exact science. I defy anyone to teach antenatal classes to hundreds of couples and get 100 per cent approval from everyone - it's just not possible. What the NCT does do is ensure that its teachers are qualified individuals who care about what they do. They are also expected (and most do) know an awful lot about their local maternity services - and students have to undertake a module on this specifically in their diploma training.

The NCT does the best it can with limited resources and relying on the good will and willingness of its workers to do voluntary work. Their outreach work - eg work with surestart - demonstrates their commitment to reach all families regardless of their social "status" or ability to pay. But in reality, this is charity simply could not exist without funding and that does come from the classes mainly. The classes held in areas (eg parts of London) which make money for the NCT sometimes have to fund projects in other less privileged parts of the country. This is as fair as it can be in the circumstances.