to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

crikey... so that's the response you get when you happen to change names mid-way through a thread. suddenly i'm preaching? not so. but they and other organisations have changed things, really they have. certainly according to midwives and HCPs...

Who's changed names?

me. did so the other night for no reason other than kicks and thrills, have been on this thread a lot prior. very interesting to see how people jump down others' throats on the basis of not very much, though. and the OP was about antenatal classes, the thread has covered a lot more ground since then, as usual focusing on the M/Cness of it all as if that is by definition a bad thing and the M/Ces haven't actually been at the forefront of every improvement in social services in our history.

Good point Fio.
I think, hanaflower the people who got nothing out of the classes are the ones who are thinking they are expensive.
It is annoying to spend £100 - or whatever amount people paid - for nothing. I might as well have set fire to the money, the amount of good the classes did me.

I agree hanaflower. NCT classes are not expensive when you look at comparable teaching.
I could only afford to go for dc1, as obviously DH and I were on two incomes and no childcare costs at that stage. Once we were onto dcs 2 and 3, we were both working but paying nursery fees so had no spare dosh. And of course, as we were working, no entitlement to the subsidies! But hey, that's life. We can't all afford everything.

"fabsmum - stopped banging on about the individuals who have expressed discontent at the service they received from the NCT"

I'm not 'banging on' about anyone. I'm asking if Gateau made a formal complaint about her course, given that she feels it was so inadequate.

"They have a right to their point of you just as you have a right to yours."

I can only assume the point of this comment is to imply that I DON'T think people have a right to a point of view....... which is rather odd really as I've not said anything of the sort.

I do think you have to accept that if you post a sweeping critical comment about the NCT on mumsnet that you're going to be challenged by people who disagree with you. Do you have a problem with this?

Message withdrawn

pruners I think you have misunderstood me. I think teenage girls/poor people/those from any other hard to reach group should have exactly the same access to high quality provision a anybody else no matter how much money the other person has.

It is unfair and unjust and downright obscene if it doesn't happen. And I do know it doesn't happen.

I work in health & social care and really do know how hard to reach teenage mums are.

what I said was:
"Why should the poor teenage girls get shit provision and those of us that are older and possibly better off get the ability to buy a higher quality of teaching?(In the view of many on here) It smacks to me of the 2 tier schooling that happens in areas where some of us can afford to move to get into a 'good' school and the rest of the kids get left with shite.

I just don't think it's fair and i didn't think what i received was worth the money i paid for it. And as a consumer i think i have the right to complain - and dont worry, i do! "

Message withdrawn

Surestart, the NCT and the NHS run special classes for teenage mums - though the provision is patchy. I went along to an NHS class to observe last year. It was really interesting. The midwife who was running it was a specialist in teenage pregnancy and she was lovely - so warm and respectful. Of the 8 girls who were invited to attend only 4 turned up. Two of them were half an hour late. Throughout the class two of the girls sat and texted on their phones. It was fascinating for me to observe: it reminded me of all the reasons I used to find teaching in secondary schools demoralising.

I came away with a head full of thoughts about what these girls needed as far as antenatal education is concerned. I personally am not sure how much input they'd need on the birth itself. The midwife told me that the majority of teenagers she had contact with had very straightforward labours, and that epidural use and c-sections were very rare.

I've spoken to other NCT teachers who work with teenagers. They mostly do drop in sessions that are discussion based. Not observed any NCT teenage classes - I'd like to though.

"I might as well have set fire to the money, the amount of good the classes did me"

What price would you put on the friendships you made from your classes? You mention these in your first post.

What could you have got out of the classes that would have made you feel you had your money's worth?

"Pregnancy is a time when most people are tightening their belts"

Not round our way it's not!

It's SPEND SPEND SPEND

Most first time mums spend an utter fortune on a pile of complete crap that their babies don't need.

If they attended my antenatal classes they'd probably save back the cost of the fees with my money saving tips! I give people lists of all the Which Best Buys for babies, plus give them a chance to talk through what they really need, plus help on sling buying/making, real nappies and baby feeding. If you attended an NCT course and it helped you to breastfeed for 4 months you'd have saved back a massive chunk of your course fees on the cost of buying formula.

Fabsmum - give it a rest. I didn't get anything out of them, got that? I do not need to explain myself any further to you. You are so interrogative I would frankly hate to be in your class.
And what mums-to-be spend money on is entirely up to them and none of your business. I can bet my bottom dollar whatever it is is more useful than the NCT antenatal classes. That's MY OPINION and I am entitled to it.

Errrm, don't try reading between the lines when you don;t get it right.
when did I say nobody got anything out of them? IN MY OPINION is very clear.
I frankly have never met a more defensive lot.

I think we all get the message loud and clear gateau - you got nothing out of NCT classes. However, many people clearly do, otherwise classes would cease to exist.
I notice from the OP that you had a csection, and you felt that the classes didnt cover much on that.
However, the majority of births AREN'T Csection, and the majority of births AREN'T with epidural, so it's fair to conclude that the breathing techniques and other strategies promoted by NCT ARE useful to MOST women and their birth partners.
(And I am not making a judgment about csections - I needed one myself for my second birth.)

Strange you should say that. In RL I've only got my class to go by - and ALL of them gave our classes the thumbs down - men included. So that's 100 per cent disappointment as far as I'm concerned.

Exactly - you only have your class to go by. Therefore no one from your class would bother going to NCT classes should they have another pregnancy. But clearly most people don't feel like this, otherwise NCT antenatal teachers would be out of a job.

tbh if you're half as angry about it in RL as you have been here, i wouldn't be for arguing with you either... so who knows what their opinion really is?

How do you know most people don;t feel like this??! On here maybe, but that's hardly the wider picture.
Have you questioned EVERY person who has done a course?
Anyway, I'm off. Argue with someone who cares. This is getting extremely boring.

Gateau - sorry, am I doing something wrong by asking you if you made a formal complaint about your classes, given that you thought they were such poor quality and poor value for money?

After all, you might get your money back, if you can show that your teacher didn't fulfil her brief for the course.

What's wrong with saying that?

"And what mums-to-be spend money on is entirely up to them and none of your business"

Except that it's one of those things that clients ALWAYS put on their agendas - what to buy for their babies, so clearly it IS my business! People are very interested in this information, I only wish we had more time to discuss it in class.

My question about what you could have got out of the classes that would have made you feel was value for money was a genuine one. What do you think you SHOULD have covered in the 12 hours you spent in the company of your NCT teacher? Come on Gateau - this is your chance to help other people who sign up for NCT classes in the future. Tell me what you think - I'll take it on board.

Hi Gateau.
I'm sorry you had a rubbish experience.
I think the problem here is that the standard of teaching is very variable with the NCT. We were lucky and had a great teacher who covered all types of birth and pain relief and was incredibly supportive to the couple who had decided not to bf. In my case it was money very well spent (even though I did not stay in touch with the rest of the group).

I remember reading a thread on here a long time ago where a poster commented that sometimes the NCT confuses its role as a campaign group with its role of providing support to new parents. I know many people who had negative NCT experiences and in all cases it was because they fely the teacher was only giving one side of the story and pushing the NCT "party line". This is very as there are some fabulous NCT teachers out there.