to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

Gateau - it is wrong if no one got back to you if you expressed dissatisfaction on your questionnaire. I would contact your local branch and enquire when your points will be addressed.

I agree that it is difficult in the early days, but the truth of the matter is you went to an ante-natal, not post-natal course.

Cthea - I think you will find that that is the case regarding ff and the NCT.

"it is the NCT's policy that they don't cover bottle feeding."
If that's the case then That is WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Bottle-feeding is often the only alternative - and it's no second best either, for women who CAN'T breastfeed, and when BF is not right for the mother or child.
The amount of NCT-taught new mothers I knew who were stressed to the hilt and on the verge of PND because of BF was daunting. They were never told how hard it can actually be - and they should be told at these courses. Maybe a lot of new mums wouldn;t even start putting themselves through it if they knew all the facts.
Yes, NCT should certainly cover BF, but as well as covering the pros, they should also cover the cons - and bottle-feeding should get a good airing as well.
NCT courses needs to be more REALISTIC.
I know I'm going to get a roasting on here but I don;t care. These are my opinions.

I should clarify regarding ff. It is during the ante-natal classes that ff is not discussed, not at the coffee mornings etc

NHS AN classes are the same as well. They won't cover ff-ing at all. We didn't pay the extra for NCT classes, and i'm quite glad as I met a set of mums from my NHS classes who I got on really well with!

I found out a lot of information about pain relief etc from magazines, books and MN.

Totally agree with OP. Waste of money. I tell my friends who are expecting to not waste their money or time.

The teacher that we had was patronising, repetitive and disdainful of anything that did not fall into line with the NCT's worldview on pregnancy and child rearing.

I did not even bother with the coffee mornings - I'd rather pull eyes out.

I have to say that I met some lovely people on my NCT course, and if anything, that alone was worth the money because we were a great support to each other.

I didn't actually find the NCT classes terribly supportive - I felt that the ethos was that the only "right" way to have a baby was without intervention or pain relief. Not terribly supportive, or, as Gateau says, realistic.

Ours was mixed. I wouldn't say it was a waste of money. We covered lots about birth, because we were all obsessed by it and kept asking questions, but did do a little baby care stuff. There was the emphasis on natural birth and 'challenging' interventions - which I thought was good at the time - then of course labour showed me the reality of things.

The breastfeeding part was crap. I guess they told us the right things, but it just didn't click. The normal stuff got trotted out - nose to nipple, tummy to mummy, skin to skin etc etc but she just made it seem like it would all work (Indeed she said it was like writing with your left hand - just unfamiliar and we needed practice!) She also said that if we wanted a drink we could pump and dump! None of us from the class liked her!

However, 8 months on, we're all still meeting up once a week or more, and we're a lifeline for each other. I would have paid more than 120 quid or whatever it was for that :-)

I wish I had just done the NHS classes and savied the money.
A friend who did both said they were better - "more practical."
My NCT teacher was a real "earth mother", or so she thought.
And laughably she announced one day, "My hundredth baby is due any day now." YOUR hundredth baby??!
She was very full of herself.

The NCT classes I went to covered caesareans in great detail, all types of pain relief inc pethidine and epidural, and a very detailed discussion of all the things that you might expect to encounter during breastfeeding. We did talk about life with a new baby, but not nappies etc (but that wasn't in the course scope).

The NHS ones were rubbish, and the MWs were very much pushing epidural etc - which they also did in the hospital

But why would you want to discuss formula feeding? You mix up a bottle according to the instructions and give it to the baby. What else do you need to know? If there are any problems, such as the baby having a problem with a particular formula, that's what the midwife/health visitor is for. Breastfeeding is much more problematic. It's not as easy as people think and women often need a lot of help with it, that's why it's covered on courses and so much emphasis is paid to it. I've seen many women reduced to tears because of breastfeeding problems but have never yet seen someone crying because they couldn't get the lid of the tin of formula. Sorry, I don't mean to be flippant but I honestly can't see what needs to be discussed about formula. It's an option, it's there. If you want it, that's fine.

I can't really comment because I never went to NCT classes personally but I can take your word for it OP. We had other things to spend our money on and found the NHS classes invaluable and reaslistic advice was given by the midwife running it. Not just on 'natural' birthing but also on the possibility of having a C Section and what it entails afterwards etc.
We plan on having another, but won't be doing NCT classes due to the unnecessary cost of it. Would rather learn from other people's experiences when cost comes into it.

I loved my NCT antenatal classes! I think perhaps your experience is more a reflection of a bad teacher who did not listen to the wishes of her class - or perhaps she did listen and your wishes weren't in tune with the rest of the class?

I think out of the 7 classes we spent:
1 on getting to know you and listing what we wanted the course to cover
1 on birth labour generally including protocols, questions to ask, other options when intervetion is suggested etc
1 on birth and pain relief options right through from natural management to epidural and the pros and cons of each
1 on birth complications (which included a simulated c section and talk about other interventions and when they might be needed) 1 on post-birth, coping with the baby, nappy changing bathing etc,
1 class on feeding options (breast and bottle), attitudes, pros and cons etc.

Plus 1 women only coffee morning on breastfeeding pros and cons and possible post-birth issues like postnatal depression and incontinence.

So out of the 7 classes there were 3 focussed the birth, 3 focussed on post-birth, and 1 general social class.

The emphasis was on being kind to yourself and your partner - I think there is plenty of pressure from society and family to be up and about in a couple of days and it was actually really nice to have someone in an authoritative position saying "well that's fine if you really want to but you don't HAVE to", and really important for the men to understand what a major procedure giving birth CAN be (not necessarily but it's the women who have a tough time and need extra support afterwards who need this advice).

So yes, I think YAB a bit U, just because you didn't find your particular class very useful, doesn't mean they are all rubbish!

I didnt attend NCT classes, only NHS ones and like other posts found that the focus was on natural birth and breast feeding. Very little on what to expect physically after the birth which I would have found useful, all those things that no one tells you.

I had a ventouse delivery using only gas and air because dd cord was round her neck and her heart rate deccelerated after my waters were broken. There was no immediate bonding or love, just relief, I went into shock and was unprepared for continued contractions. I then struggled to breastfeed and went onto bottles after three days.

Sorry for the long post but I feel that certain aspects are skimmed over in antenatal classes such as what happens next, when things go wrong and that bottle feeding is ok.

Did NHS ante-natal...Fantastic! Very informative, answered all questions and DH felt he gained alot from attending them. Did think about doing NCT next time but think I will just attend the coffee mornings instead.

The thing is Gateau, you may think it's wrong that ff isn't covered (and maybe it is?) but it's not what the NCT stand for.

I would question why people would attend an ante-natal class when the ethos of the class provider isn't something that they agree with / live by / understand.

BF is a bit of an art when you start doing it, but it's only by normalising it and helping and encouraging woman to do it that things will change.

There is lots to say about FF, not DISCUSS. I'm glad you were so clued up, but some women aren't.
There is the sterilisation of bottles, the different types of teats, how you're supposed to mix the water and formula only when you;re ready to use it (that's changed from years back - the HV told me - I didn;t know!), how frequently you need to feed them, the poo; need I go on?!

Gateau the NHS classes were great, I left feeling like I had learned something and got both the good and bad possibilities of what happens before during and after the birth. It wasn't all rosey, which is being realistic. We also had a session with the physio and HV which I found interesting and at the end they brought in new mums who had just given birth and they were giving us the low down on what it was like being a new parent in the first few weeks, again, invaluable advice. We also got to ask loads of questions. Didn't find the midwife patronising atall, but again, that all depends on your midwife running the NHS class.

I think I was very lucky, really, as my community MW was very pro-natural birth, and very supportive of my decision to try for a home birth (didn't happen - but, hey! )

My MW this time round is quite scathing of the idea of home births, and if we can afford it, i want to hire Marsy a doula.

and perhaps it depends where you do the NHS ones, but I did them in central London, there were 60 people there (30 couples) and no time for chatting, plus very little chance of even sitting next to the same person twice.

I found them useful from the point of view of practical information about the birth but very little use in terms of support, making friends and an alternative view to that particular hospital's protocols, which was what I went to the NCT for.

As an eg, the NHS classes just said "we induce after X days overdue" (can't remember how many - 7 i think)

The NCT classes said "The NICE guidelines are X, the protocols at this local hospital are Y, the protocols at alternative local hospital are Z, if you are offered induction and don't wish to take it immediately your options are..." Having not discovered mumsnet at that point, there was no way I would have known all that information without the NCT there to provide it - the hospital classes weren't out to point out the inconsistencies in hospital policy.

How did I know what the NCT 'ethos?' was. I had never heard of the NCt before I was pg and went to the classes because I thought that's what everyone did. I didn;t get all clued up beforehand - I had no need to.
ANTENATAL advice is what I went for, as per the name of the course.

FF should be covered in classes, I agree. It was touched upon, as was BF, both on equal measures.
I found NHS classes to delve into when things goes wrong. I'm sorry you weren't given enough info at yours, Isabellasmam. It just goes to show how much NHS classes vary from region to region.

Fair enough, Gateau. I did both, though (had to supplement DS1's breastfeeding with formula) and just found I could find out everything I needed about formula feeding from reading the instructions that came with the steriliser and reading the instructions on the tin of formula. Breastfeeding, on the other hand, came with a lot of problems which hadn't been covered on my NHS course. If I were running an antenatal course, I'd place the emphasis on breastfeeding too.

SueW, do you cover what happens when a woman tears during labour? HOw they go through excruciating pain when they have a 3/4th degree tear?? Birthing experience isn't always great for everyone.
I just get the impression NCT is v airy fairy. Sorry just what's coming across here.

Gateau - I'm sorry, but if you didn't do any research on what the NCT stood for then you were always bound to be in for a nasty shock! I went online and looked at what the NCT stood for, and although I thought my views and its' views matched quite well, I thought it was expensive for what it was.

Didn't you look at what their ethos was at all?

Yes, airy fairy earth mothery pretty much sums it up, scottish
Sometimes the earth mother bit seems a bit contrived too, I have to add.