to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

I'm just catching up...

Jette - I saw your link to the course in Covent Garden for £540. In no sense does that fit in with the course prices.

www.nct.org.uk/in-your-area/course-finder/course-prices

Covent Garden would be the Band C (as is Central London), but I can't fine anywhere that quotes £540.

Courses are available for £20 for unwaged etc... but also at a sliding discount of between 50% and 5% if you earn between 15k and 25k.

Message withdrawn

Anna: I alot of women are reluctant to question a midwife or doctor when in a hospital. Sometimes people are amazed at how easily they consented to treatment because they were in hospital.

When I woke up in discomfort, not pain, at about 3 am, I rang. Someone came along and gave me medication. Under normal conditions, (daytime, alert) I would have asked what it was. I was groggy and suffering pre-eclampsia. I assumed it was paracetamol. it wasn't. It must have been codeine because codeine knocks me out cold.

when I rang again. because the pain would break my unconsciousness, I was screaming in pain before I knew who was screaming, I asked for gas & air, somehow assuming I was still in a fit state to make decisions for myself.

Someone brought along the gas and air and said put this on your face when you feel a contraction and left.

When I recounted this part to my current midwife, she asked if i was on the AN ward. I said yes. She said 'we don't give gas and air on the AN Ward.' I told her that somebody did to me.

the up and up of htis story is that if someone, anyone has stayed behind long enought to talk to and reassure me, not intervene or do anything on my behalf, she would have been aware that whatever they had given me had made me shitfaced and incoherent and that I could no longer make any decisions for myself.

I estimate I got the codeine at 3 am but no one knew what was going on with me till around 8AM. By then I had given up hope that anyone cared in what lucid moments I had after each contraction. I didn't even have the presence of mind left to ring the bell anymore I was so shitfaced by the codeine. The only memory I have of labour is screaming like a stuck pig at the height of my contractions and blackness. I have now learnt that an induction can send some women's contractions haywire. I bet most women don't get told this in AN Classes. It still feels like I was raped by the lack human attention i did not receive. Not by the 2 prostin pessaries, codeine, or subsequent epidural and ventouse which later followed.

caribee - yes, they are reluctant and unable to question hospital practice because they are ill-prepared for what is likely to happen.

Hence the usefulness of antenatal classes

Anna, you need to get out more.

and be thankful for the small graces that you have been blessed with so far.

Erm, what's wrong with reading a book? They have all the basic information about what you can expect during childbirth etc. Going to an AN class is not absolutely necessary for giving birth. The two things I found most useful in the run-up to giving birth the first time were a breastfeeding workshop by a MW at the hospital and the tour of the maternity unit. The most important thing surely is to get hold of information that is a) unbiased and b) relevant to the maternity services available in your area. i.e. if you are going to be stuck on a labour ward for ages you should know that in advance. Also, it's important to about c/s and induced birth, because much as you may not want to have either of those, you might end up with them anyway.

yup, notbignotclever, i did that when i was pg with no.1. It should be enough. A touch of humanity was all that my care needed. it was going to be a hard delivery anyway but I would have felt like my best interests were looked after. The lack of attention left a completely different mark on me.

There is no way the NCT or the NHS AN class could have addressed what I actually encountered on the ward. or rather failed to encounter. bitter? moi?

akent - I posted the link earlier to the website which quotes £540.. I did email them to ask for more information and I have a hard copy that also quotes £540..

It is not trye that NCTT policy doesn't support formula feeding. The World Health Organisation International Code on Marketing of breasmilk substitute prohibits discussing infant formula in groups (and puts restrictions on how it is discussed individually) see www.ibfan.org/english/resource/who/fullcode.html . This applies not only to NCT workers but to all health professionals, icluding midwives and health visitors, so formula feeding shouldn't be taught at NHS classes either.
The NCT welcomes and supports all parents regardless of birth choices or type or decisions regarding feeding. breastfeeding counsellors are volunteers who give of a lot of their own time to help mothers who are struggling with breastfeeding and want to continue.

jette - have queried £540 with my manager. NCT are supposed to be reaching more new parents. I can't imagine who has £540 for antenatal courses.

but caribee... "I have now learnt that an induction can send some women's contractions haywire. I bet most women don't get told this in AN Classes."

i WAS told this in NCT classes. and judging by this thread other women have been told similar and taken it as scaremongering.

and while it of course sounds like you had an horrific experience, i don't know anyone up here who was similarly mismanaged. how can any class prepare a bunch of women for that, without being accused of bad-mouthing the NHS?

i think the NCT can't win. too much 'here's how bad it can get in a hospital' info and they're being scaremongers, too little and they're 'airy-fairy'. (or for what i suspect is the majority, okay birth classes followed by an okay birth experience...)

Been lurking here since the start, and have noted the comments about breastfeeding and formula feeding.

I am a breastfeeding counsellor and teach many classes. Someone downthread was shocked that when she asked about expressing, the bfc asked her why she wanted to express...what on earth is wrong with asking that? The answer and discussion on expressing will depend on why she wants to (expressing to go back to work versus expressing for a baby who is likely to need time in special care, to take just two examples out of many).

No, formula feeding is not explained or demo'd in the breastfeeding class, not because NCT is 'against' formula feeding, but because of the reasons outlined in tipplass's post. It is a breastfeeding class - anyone who knows they will definitely not breastfeed is probably not going to get a lot out of it frankly, though most bfcs will include something on using formula and its impact on breastfeeding....why would anyone object to knowing that?

It seems to me that some class participants take one or two remarks very literally - I cannot imagine that an NCT tells her class members to take in whale music, candles and foot oil . All of these are options, though, and it's just not NCT style to tell people what they have to use in labour...but what's wrong with discussing what people might find helpful?

Aitch - good summing up.

and actually, i think that why my class was good was because by good fortune all of us just wanted to have our babies in a hospital and come out safely and all of us made that quite clear from the start. (i remember the teacher saying she was surprised none of the 6 of us wanted a home birth and we all posl).

so by absolute luck we all wanted the same outcome from the class, just to be talked through labour, pain relief, problems etc (as first-timers this was most pressing) and a bit about after the baby was born.

our teacher was great, just bonkers enough for us to bond with a raised eyebrow when she got a bit whale music-y, but absolutely knew her stuff and had prepared exercises well. in fact, her best gift to us all was to allow us to see that we had absorbed a lot of good information about birth prior to attending, which gave us all confidence. she wanted us to talk to each other more than she wanted us to listen to her, iykwim?

i think that had we someone there who wanted a very different birth, perhaps we would have felt sidetracked, or even if we'd been at the weekly rather than a weekend class it might have been harder to keep focus. but again i can't see how the NCT could be responsible for that.

oh, thanks tt.

akent - perhaps you could check the link I posted earlier if you think I'm making it up?!

Here it is again www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-area/course-finder/view/3667

i don't think she thinks you're making it up, jette. i get the impression she thinks the figures are anomalous and is flagging it higher for you.

I wonder if the £540 for classes is for a course run independently by an NCT-trained teacher?

So, not an NCT class at all, in fact.

it's a fookin' disgrace, whatever it is...

Whoops - I have checked the link, and it does seem to be an NCT class.

Blimey.

Not typical of the rest of the country, though!

aitch and tiktok, great posts.

Cliche I know but can't please all of the people all of the time. All the NCT workers I have met spend time worrying how to meet the needs of all paticipants AND worry how to walk the tightrope of balance because of the sheer differences of opinions and experiences.

All we can promise is to try. And acknowledge that sometimes we get it wrong.

Well, I'm not going to bother anyway - I hope they don't get any bookings! grrr!

you are right Aitch. I know I was mismanaged and no class can prepare anyone for that. It is the reality for a lot of women when they do get to a maternity suite for a variety of reasons.

Even if I knew that before hand, I don't think I would have questioned staff. I was being admitted as a woman with acute PE (bp was 185/130! and taken in an ambulance). I was now a medical patient, not another woman going in to have a baby. At 38 wks, I was told gently that they would try one induction overnight and if it didn't work, it was a c/s the next day. It was entirely logical and I don't think many medical or lay person would have disagreed that this option made sense. I just did not expect the lack of human contact I received.

I know AN classes are valuable in a society where there is little continuity where traditionally women who are close relations would be there to comfort reassure and advocate for the woman in labour whether a midwife is around or not. I think so many posts on here are asking too much from any AN class and not analysing what has actually happened between the class they attended and what course their labour and delivery actually took.

Women in labour should be focused on their labour, not worried about whether or not they are receiving optimal care. Worry and stress and other neocortex brainwaves, ie, be prepared to question/challenge medical staff, are inhibitors to a woman in labour.

Your rational is partly why i feel like this thread was misguided and from the first 20 posts when I started to follow it, have felt like the OP posted it the tone she did in order to sh*tstir. I am glad it turned away from the nasty tone it had earlier and has become something of more use to the public.

Hi Jette,

Yes, I saw your link. It does say £540. I do believe you.

I think what they have written is wrong. The webpage you linked to is written by a local administrator, not by the UK office.

I've asked my manager whether £540 is correct because it doesn't fit in with the pricing I've been told to charge people.

I want to be able to say to people "The NCT charge £xxx" and amounts like this on our website are not helpful.

fabsmum "There are loads of private antenatal courses out there.

Mostly run by NCT trained teachers!".

Err, no, that's not correct. In the area I was in there was NHS and there was NCT and that was it.

Now in completely different part of the country with new pregnancy and it's exactly the same - NCT or NHS only.