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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

660 replies

Gateau · 30/07/2008 09:12

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

OP posts:
findtheriver · 06/08/2008 15:32

NCT courses aren't complusory you know!! If people find they are getting nothing out of them, they are free to stop attending, not rebook with subsequent pregnancies, and also complain to the NCT!
No, of course I haven't run a survey with everone who has ever done the course! Have you?? As for arguing with someone who cares.... erm... who started the thread?!

DillyTanty · 06/08/2008 15:39

i gather that most people don't feel like you do because the classes continue to be over-subscribed.

this is presumably because their pals who've been on NCT courses in the past also don't feel the way you do. that, and the fact that the NHS isn't offering the provision that the NCT charity does, more's the pity. thank god for its existence, i say.

i dunno, gateau, i still don't get why you went along to the new group and did a talk for this woman if you thought she was so ghastly... you do seem very angry, but what are you actually doing other than moaning about it? if everyone thought the teacher was awful she should have been sanctioned before now.

but then i haven't seen what pruni's seen on the other thread...

fabsmum · 06/08/2008 16:28

love2sleep
The standard of teaching is variable within the NHS and the private sector too.

You find this in any profession.

The additional problem we face in the NCT is that we sometimes are left to carry the can, emotionally speaking, for the hideous, disappointing birth and breastfeeding experiences some of our clients go on to have - many of which are actually the result of substandard care from the NHS.

"and in all cases it was because they fely the teacher was only giving one side of the story and pushing the NCT "party line

There are a number of accusations on this thread that the NCT is unrealistic about birth and therefore sets people up for disappointment: we tell mums that the majority of them can have normal births and the majority should be able to breastfeed, and then what do you know, most go on to have difficult births followed by difficult breastfeeding.

Sometimes I feel like saying this to my clients: "The medical literature supports the view that most of you should be able to have a normal birth and should be able to breastfeed without undue difficulty. If you were living in the Netherlands this would be the case. However, we live in the UK, and if you go and give birth in our local hospital the reality is this: you are overwhelmingly likely to have shedloads of interventions. You will probably be looked after in labour by a midwife who doesn't know you from adam; she may well be rushed and under pressure because she is looking after 3 other women at the same time as trying to care for you; we can talk about having an active birth and about upright positions for labour, but the reality is that 82% of women in the hospital you're going to give birth sitting on their bottoms, lying flat on their backs on the bed or with their legs in stirrups; most of you want to go through labour without taking drugs that will impair your mobility and your memory of the birth, however, most of you will feel so frightened and exhausted from trying to cope with the overwhelming experience of labour in an unsympathetic, unfamiliar environment and without one to one care that you'll be begging for pethidine or an epidural before long. Oh yes - and when you get up onto the postnatal ward you'll be expected to give your baby formula if he or she hasn't latched on within 2 hours. If you ask for help someone is quite likely to come and grab your breast and try to shove your baby's head onto it without so much as a by your leave. If this doesn't work they might drop some comment about the size and shape of your breasts and nipples and how these will make breastfeeding extra challenging for you. Now, I wonder how many of you have considered the option of giving birth at home!'.

Can you imagine what people would say and think? But that's the reality for many of the people I teach. My way of dealing with this is to do what your teacher did: cover all the bases, but it's done at the cost of other things which are just as important - such as repeated practice of physical skills for labour, and discussion of some of the emotional issues underpinning people's feelings about birth.

And the sad thing is that it doesn't help my clients avoid having interventions, it just makes them feel marginally better about it afterwards. I think if my aim was to help the largest number of women have the best possible births I'd concentrate most of the course on doing physical skills for labour - but as I said, this gets squeezed out in order to allow time to give information on interventions. I'm also fearful that if I concentrated on physical skills and bolstering women's confidence in their ability to give birth normally I'd then be opening myself up to criticism of being 'fluffy' and of not meeting the needs of those people who'd go on to have interventions. Really - sometimes I feel that we can't win.

fabsmum · 06/08/2008 16:28

love2sleep
The standard of teaching is variable within the NHS and the private sector too.

You find this in any profession.

The additional problem we face in the NCT is that we sometimes are left to carry the can, emotionally speaking, for the hideous, disappointing birth and breastfeeding experiences some of our clients go on to have - many of which are actually the result of substandard care from the NHS.

"and in all cases it was because they fely the teacher was only giving one side of the story and pushing the NCT "party line

There are a number of accusations on this thread that the NCT is unrealistic about birth and therefore sets people up for disappointment: we tell mums that the majority of them can have normal births and the majority should be able to breastfeed, and then what do you know, most go on to have difficult births followed by difficult breastfeeding.

Sometimes I feel like saying this to my clients: "The medical literature supports the view that most of you should be able to have a normal birth and should be able to breastfeed without undue difficulty. If you were living in the Netherlands this would be the case. However, we live in the UK, and if you go and give birth in our local hospital the reality is this: you are overwhelmingly likely to have shedloads of interventions. You will probably be looked after in labour by a midwife who doesn't know you from adam; she may well be rushed and under pressure because she is looking after 3 other women at the same time as trying to care for you; we can talk about having an active birth and about upright positions for labour, but the reality is that 82% of women in the hospital you're going to give birth sitting on their bottoms, lying flat on their backs on the bed or with their legs in stirrups; most of you want to go through labour without taking drugs that will impair your mobility and your memory of the birth, however, most of you will feel so frightened and exhausted from trying to cope with the overwhelming experience of labour in an unsympathetic, unfamiliar environment and without one to one care that you'll be begging for pethidine or an epidural before long. Oh yes - and when you get up onto the postnatal ward you'll be expected to give your baby formula if he or she hasn't latched on within 2 hours. If you ask for help someone is quite likely to come and grab your breast and try to shove your baby's head onto it without so much as a by your leave. If this doesn't work they might drop some comment about the size and shape of your breasts and nipples and how these will make breastfeeding extra challenging for you. Now, I wonder how many of you have considered the option of giving birth at home!'.

Can you imagine what people would say and think? But that's the reality for many of the people I teach. My way of dealing with this is to do what your teacher did: cover all the bases, but it's done at the cost of other things which are just as important - such as repeated practice of physical skills for labour, and discussion of some of the emotional issues underpinning people's feelings about birth.

And the sad thing is that it doesn't help my clients avoid having interventions, it just makes them feel marginally better about it afterwards. I think if my aim was to help the largest number of women have the best possible births I'd concentrate most of the course on doing physical skills for labour - but as I said, this gets squeezed out in order to allow time to give information on interventions. I'm also fearful that if I concentrated on physical skills and bolstering women's confidence in their ability to give birth normally I'd then be opening myself up to criticism of being 'fluffy' and of not meeting the needs of those people who'd go on to have interventions. Really - sometimes I feel that we can't win.

findtheriver · 06/08/2008 16:47

fabsmum - I just want to say that I am immensely grateful for people like you, who, in the face of all the difficulties women encounter in this country, still work hard to get this message across.
You are absolutely right. The wealth of data supports the view that statistically most woman should be able to give birth vaginally and without drugs which will impair them physically and mentally in such a way as to make further intervention more likely. And you are also correct that for many women, the deficiencies in the NHS system make this really difficult.
I embarked on my first pregnancy with very little knowledge and no confidence that I would be able to achieve a natural birth. From what I saw of friends who had already had babies, the 'normal' way was to go into a large impersonal hospital and end up with epidural, stitches etc.
I would say it is largely down to my NCT classes that I became better informed, and realised that there IS another way. I'm not saying I went into labour supremely confident, because I doubt many women do, but I felt empowered enough to book into a midwife unit, and I ended up having a natural birth. Painful - yes. Hard work - yes. A negative experience - NO.
I think the NCT does some really excellent work and I'm very grateful that it exists.

love2sleep · 06/08/2008 17:18

Fabsmum.
thanks for these posts (and for providing a much needed service .

FWIW the two main benefits of my clases were:

  1. The information on possible interventions.
    I spent much of labour1 in a fabulous MW led unit but when things went wrong it all happened very quickly with no time to properly explain the sitation. Thanks to my NCT classes I fully understood what was going on and why they were doing it.

  2. The importance of active birth
    With DS2 there were some annoying minor complications early on so I ended up in a druggy haze strapped to a bed with dozens of monitors. Thanks to the NCT I made them get me off the bed and ds2 was born shortly after.

fabsmum · 06/08/2008 17:27

Thanks to the NCT I made them get me off the bed and ds2 was born shortly after.

I like hearing things like that.

Oh dear, I've got to get off this thread.

DH took issue with me last night about the amount of time I've been spending on mumsnet recently and I agreed he had a fair point.

Elasticwoman · 06/08/2008 17:49

If you had to put up with any one as rude and unreasonable as Gateau in your classes, Fabsmum and all other nct teachers, then I'm sorry for you.

"Give it a rest" - how dare you Gateau? - you started this discussion with the abusive and provocative "load of crap" comment and you expect Fabsmum not to defend herself or fellow teachers!

Fabsmum has argued her points with sympathy and intellectual rigour. Unlike you, Gateau.

pudding25 · 08/08/2008 22:47

My NCT teacher was wonderful. She discussed everything from natural birth to epidurals and c sections. She was open minded about everything, incl bottle feeding. She was in no way narrow minded. However, it would have been nice to talk about what we do when we got the baby home!

Wonkam79 · 20/01/2013 17:41

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