to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

I wonder how many NCT antenatal teachers are watching this thread? .

sounds like your teacher was a proper nut, though, quattro, you poor old stick.

if anything, this thread should be of interest to the NCT as it proves that the variable pricing structure and extremely variable teaching methods aren't working across the country. but to dismiss all their courses as pretty much a load of crap is just childish. suggesting that a person looks for local recommendations on teachers must be more sensible than denouncing all of them.

i'll tell you something else that isn't working across the country, though... maternity services.
where i live things seem pretty much fine, no-one i know laboured on a shared ward for hours, and i'm speaking of experiences of good friends at four different hospitals in my area. we also don't appear to be terribly understaffed for midwives up here either, and we have nhs classes for all. it's a major city, not a rural backwater, i should say. there are clear problems in the south of england, that's been widely reported. but we don't all live there.

so, one person's reality about how hospitals and labour really work can't be the same as another's. tbh i'd say that of my pals, not one of us could even say that our labours in the same reasonably well-staffed hospitals were the same, so it's asking a lot of the NCT to cover every eventuality.

Wow, I'm so glad I've seen this thread. Moved to a new area recently (pg with DC1). I tried to get on an NCT course mainly to meet some local mums etc but couldn't. They then ofered a one day course, not in my local area and all it covers is the three stages of labour. Ive turned it down as didn't want to pay £100 for info you can get for free on the net. Did the NHS class and it was good. They covered all the different orms of pain relief, complications and the stages of normal labour. They were also quite pragmatic re bf - they recommend it but also acknowledged that it doesnt always work out. Now so glad I haven't spent money on a course!

I did both the NHS half-day course that was offered and an 8-week NCT class.

I probably picked up all I needed to know in the NHS class and it was specific to the hospital where I gave birth. At the time I found my NCT class a bit on the slow-side; however, as I ended up with a complicated birth I was really grateful for the drip-drip approach of the teacher who had covered all bases on pain-relief, c-sections and had really involved the couples in setting the agenda and helping with the content of each class. The teacher had also had 3 very different births herself including a home-birth and a section, so was totally pragmatic. Met some great friends too.

I got lucky. It's a great shame that it appears that there is such a subjective ethos from teacher-to-teacher, since as a central lobby group the NCT seems very effective. Perhaps it's a case of better independent quality control at a local level, something a bit more rigorous than a hand-in feedback questionnaire from a busy, hormonal lady.

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Goodness, I have come into this thread very late I know. Just my tuppence worth...my NCT antenatal class was excellent (I am not an avid breastfeeder and this was perfectly fine!!!), whale music not compulsory (My choice was Green Day...).

The class was a good mix of people, all of whom I am still in contact with. My local NCT branch (oddly enough, Stratford on Avon), is welcoming and I have made some great friends through it.
Yes, I think the courses are very expensive, but tried to get my sis on a course in her local area and the nearest was 45 mins drive away (and she lives in Peterborough, hardly a hamlet). Not an option for her to travel to "nearby Huntingdon"!!!! There seems to be an issue regarding geographical availability, which suggests an increased need for new antenatal teachers..hence the increased price on courses???

Does anyone remember this news report on a study about women's expectations of childbirth?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7292565.stm

I think there are a lot of good ante-natal teachers on here who sound as though they are realistic about pain and intervention. HOWEVER - they need to understand that some of us have had a very different experience from the balanced classes that they teach. It is not wrong to talk about that.

I actually think that a multiplicity of antenatal class providers is a very bad idea indeed.

I think that NCT classes are good for those who are either aren't offered/ can't attend NHS classes.

I did ante and post aqua natal classes which cost about £5 a lesson and I made several good friends through it. It was taken by an NHS midwife at a local swimming pool. It did wonders for people's pelvic floor.

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By Bubble99 on Wed 30-Jul-08 22:54:30
Yes. Definitely depends on the day and the staff on duty.

I have found NHS hospitals to be scary and dangerous places during weekends, nights and bank holidays, when there are fewer regular qualified staff around.

YUP, totally my experience Bubble. NO ante-natal course worth its salt could have prepared me for the nightmare I suffered on the antenatal ward. It was at night.

Unfortunately, I can't plan when I will go into labour so wild horses will not drag me back to a hospital for childbirth this time round, bar the medical need for a c/s.

I ain't afraid of pain. I am afraid of the potluck of service available in maternity care.

sorry for digressing there ladies. this is a current issue of mine.

I didn't do antenatal before dd1 and feel i am preparing myself better w/o an antenatal class this time round.

as you were. interesting reading.

Exterminaitch - our NHS classes are three hours. The midwives are given a script and are told to stick to it. As a result the classes are hideous - boring, boring, boring. Parents get loads of information - they get talked at non-stop for three hours and come out with their heads reeling.

If NCT teachers were told: 'this is how you should teach, and this is the way you should teach it, and this is the NCT 'party line' on pain relief etc, all teachers would resign en masse and their place would be taken by people with no creativity or passion for what they are doing. Yes - you'd stop the odd crap teacher putting her foot in it, but you'd also stop the inspired teachers from doing their jobs properly too.

Re an earlier comment posted:-

"BTW there were absolutely NO uber middle class yummy mummies or daddies at my NCT antenatal classes"

I smiled at that because they were certainly present in my NCT class.

Looking back on it I'm glad to have received some basic information on birth but felt that more emphasis on c-sections, potential problems surrounding breastfeeding (I don't think the word mastitis was ever mentioned) and the realities of life on the labour ward would be of more benefit. My birth experience was certainly not all calm, controlled and serene with attentive midwives as the class teacher seemed to portrays; more like chaotic and frightening with a seemingly constant change of staff.

I think I would have benefitted just as much if not more from NHS classes but these were fully subscribed.

"I have found NHS hospitals to be scary and dangerous places during weekends, nights and bank holidays, when there are fewer regular qualified staff around".

I could not agree more with this comment.

i foolishly paid for VVExpensive birth clases with one of the birth gurus and it was awful i-am-woman-hear-me-roar zealot. lots of chanty incantation breathing type stuff.

anti-medical model,dont let those butchers take your baby alarmist stuff

lets all look at a maze to help you focus on delivery.

Aye because a wee puzzle really helps when your pelvis opens the pain is excruciating and feels like your arse is splitting in half

nct in my area was fully booked, locum MW forgot to book me at hosp classes and when i enquired they were full

There have been a lot of changes in the NCT in the past 6/12 months. Firstly, administrators are now employed to book people on to courses. I am one of these administrators, so I shall declare my interest now! So, the charity is no longer relying on volunteers for that first contact between newly pregnant women and the NCT. Hopefully this contact will be more professional and "standardised" to some extent.

Secondly, the pricing structure of antenatal courses has changed. Traditionally, prices were set by branches and varied vastly across the UK (and even down the road). The UK Office has now set the prices so women should all be paying the same price for the same type of course.

(Has this been covered in the thread already - it has somewhat got away from me)

I'll post a link to this thread on the NCT forums I use - I think the powers-that-be should know what you all think.

With my non-work hat on, my NCT course was very balanced and far better than what was offered by the NHS. However, in hindsight, I would have been better off with a postnatal course about how to bath a baby etc... Poor DD1 didn't have a bath for two weeks, I had to wait for my mum to come and show me what to do.

Pruners - here in France there are multiple small providers of antenatal preparation that are not linked to specific hospitals/obstetricians and their own particular birthing practices. So you can go to an antenatal class that has bugger all to do with what you will find on the day itself.

I possibly got lucky, but I found that being a "good pupil" and turning up to all my NHS antenatal classes and going on the maternity wing visit while in late pregnancy was fantastic preparation for the birth I was actually going to have, because it was so well coordinated.

When my baby was a few months old I watched a terrible TV programme made by the journalist Rowan Pelling who ranted and raved about how all women ought to have their own MW on the NHS to follow them throughout pregnancy and labour. What made the whole thing farcical was that Rowan Pelling admitted she hadn't gone to any antenatal classes. Hardly surprising she felt rather lost when she showed up at the hospital to give birth.

'Overthemill - what did your teacher say to you that made you feel so criticised? Did she question whether you needed a c-section? Was it what she said that upset you, or the way she said it, or both?

Did you say that you did go on to have a vaginal birth? '
fabsmum in reply
I called the person who did the bookings for the course and told her taht i'd been told that. she said 'they always say that and its not necessary' when i joined the group itself and we did the going round the circle the teacher said something in response to me (in front of 14 other people i had never met) very similar (10 years ago so sorry dont remember exact words).
She definitely said that NCT prepare women for a natural birth although some people PREFER not to have a natural birth' ie we made the choice.

for me i know i was sensitive - i 'd had a miscarriage 9 years before and spent 3 years have fertility investigations etc then fell pregnant by fluke.

but i know that another nct group i have gatecrashed had a different teacher and the who ended up with c-sections (and also couldnt bf for some reason not sure why)t to me.

birth is the beginning and not teh end - that is what i felt we weren't helped with

i am sure you aren't like this and maybe its all changed since then - though this thread suggests not. btw i have excellent feminist credentials - i really do feel it is women's right to choose to 'manage' ther own fertility wherever possible but this didn't feel sisterly at all! As I said earlier, i even thought of training myself as an AN teacher so as to offer an alternative but I couldn't afford the fees

ooh forgot - yes i did go on to have a vaginal birth following a labour 4 weeks early (the placenta moved) which started on a friday and finished finally on the monday. Waters broke on sunday 5.30 am and i delivered monday 11.35. During the entire time I was joined up to a monitor, had to stay on the delivery table (except wehn i begged to have a bath). had a tens machine (which broke) gas and air and then finally an epidural around 5 am on the monday. i refused pethidine as it'd been used to stop early labours previously (at 28 and 32 weeks) and it had made me feel very very unwell.

when i delivered i was medically in shock & very ill indeed. baby taken away before i could see her and rushed off as she'd stopped breathing. dh honestly thought i was going to die. had an episiotomy which healed badly and got infected. had to stay in bed for 2 weeks after birth. then admitted after a severe haemorhage for 2 days.

tbh i wish i'd had a c-section.

btw my next pg ended in late miscarriage so that is my sole experience.

Can I ask some questions - Is it possible to match your expectations pre-birth with the reality of after birth? For example if you really desire to B/F do you want to know all the possible problems/outcomes and would you really listen?

Same for c-sections, are you going to discount this from happening to you?

Are you really going to listen when people tell you how easy/hard and every variation in between it is to become a mother? And how much/little your life is going to change?

How much can you really prepare? Is it how you apply the informtion/evidence to your own personal needs?

Anna whether or not someone attended an AN class can have no relevance to the standard of care (or near complete lack of in my case) they will actually receive while she actually in labour, as many posts on here have outlined.

Rowan Pelling may not have been to an AN class, like me, and I am not defending her or making it personal, however, even the most conventional midwifery organisations recognise that one woman to one midwife usually provides the best outcome for mother and baby.

I come from a little 3rd world country most people have never heard of. AN classes are unheard of. None of my mother's 6 pregnancies and subsequent labours have sounded like the battlezone conditions that myself and some other women have experienced on the NHS.

caribee - I disagree - you are in a far better position to know what to expect of your MW if you are forewarned of standard practice. And hence also to argue your case if things don't happen the way you wish.

The very fact of going to antenatal classes specific to the hospital in which you are due to give birth, a couple of months beforehand, gives a woman lots of time to research birth elsewhere and to compare and contrast her desires with what she is likely to find on the day.

AN classes can help you prepare for birth. most of us won't have any other experience of it before doing ourselves for the first time. it's useful to know about the kind of pain meds etc you can have, birthing positions, what could go differently than planned 'normal' birth, home birth, c sections, what your rights are as a woman giving birth, early days with the baby (so bathing, changing a nappy, dressing, cutting toe nails, first aid) getting enough sleep, feeding yourself, how to get back in touch with each other as a couple.

they should take into account what actually happens in the local maternity unit.

from this thread it seems no-one has quite got this right yet but lots of people seem to be trying their best on limited funding with limited time.