to think NCT antenatal courses are pretty much a load of crap???!

[Gateau]

What a waste of money. Yes, you meet some good friends from it, but IMO that's one of the only positives.
They draw over about six weeks what could be said in one or two classes. All the members of our course said that.
The course is almost all about the woman's 'birth experience' which I found just makes women obsess about the birth itself. So many women I knew were "disappointed" with the birth, when surely it's not all about teh birth, but more about the wonderful reward you get at the end?And they barely touch on having a C-section - which is what I had.
And there's all this rubbish about "challenging" the medical staff when they suggest you have a C-section- with what energy, after 14 hours in labour? And when they say either have a c-section or risk endangering you and the baby, what choice is there?
our NCT teacher asked me to do a talk to her new group post-baby - or rather I was the only one who said I would. She very much disliked that fact that I was telling them I bottle-fed (because we are breaking the breastfeeding law, of course)and that I DIDN'T advocate sitting around the house in pjs after the baby was born - it doesn't suit everyone's state of mind. The NCT IMO is dogmatic.
I think the NCT course would be much more productive if it focused a little more on the early parenting side of things - that's where me and most of my NCT friends could have done with the advice!!

That is fantastic and realistic advice, especially about the food.

Maybe the NCT needs to make sure that teachers know what it's like at the front line? Why suggest labour aids that aren't going to be permitted?

I also think that prospective parents need to be told to have a solid plan B if they want a home birth.

so much of it just depends on the day though - don't you think? When I went into labour it was the busiest day they had had so far that year and I had to wait for quite a while before I could go through to the labour ward - it wasn't awful or anything, but I definitely "qualified" and they just didn't have space - or if they did it was going to women who were more advanced than me.

But at 2 in the morning, after delivering, the ward was completely empty and I was able to stay in the labour room with DH and DS for 3 or 4 brilliant hours, have a shower, eat some toast, have a cuddle and a little snooze... I think we only got moved to the postnatal ward at about 6am as other women were starting to come in.

Just complete luck of the draw really.

This is why it surprises me more women don't opt for home births, you are garanteed a midwife throughout, you can have as many candles as you like and the slightest hint of a problem you'll be sent to hospital in an ambulance which will ensure you go straight into a delivery room. Why would you want to go and sit in a (dirty in my experience) labour ward with howling women terrifying you for longer than you have to.

Yes. Definitely depends on the day and the staff on duty.

I have found NHS hospitals to be scary and dangerous places during weekends, nights and bank holidays, when there are fewer regular qualified staff around.

KatieDD. Where I live in London many women don't get the home birth they want due to staff shortages. They then have no option but to go to hospital.

Our local hospital does have a midwife led unit but two such units have been closed in other boroughs recently.

Um - I don't know ANY teachers who tell people to bring candles in!

Of the four teachers in my branch two are midwives, and I sit on the MSLC at my local hospital so am well aware of the protocols there. Most NCT teachers I know have some involvement in local maternity services - as doulas, midwives or MSLC reps.

"The NCT teachers was a too posh to push type and FF they were snobby unwelcoming and rude to anybody who wasn't exactly the same as them, ex teachers mainly"

How many 'ex teachers' were on the committee? We are a big branch with 4 teachers - none of who regularly sits on the committee. In fact none of the teachers I know outside of my branch regularly attends committee meetings or does much in the branch other than teach.

Home births are booked but then can't be staffed.

I would refuse to go into hospital in that case, by law they have to attend home births, they'll find somebody in that situation.
My cousin was left unattended in a hospital with the cord wrapped around the babies neck un noticed for 4 hours because they didn't believe she was progressing, didn't check either.
Sorry this is going off on a tangent.

KatieDD. If you're clued up and confident you would refuse to go to hospital. A lot of parents aren't though, are they? They will just want to do whatever they can to safely deliver a live baby.

Sure I appreciate that. Especially with the first baby you do suffer from White Coat syndrome as I call it, hence why the NCT is so good at challenging that in their classes or at least I hope they are.

Though I would agree, from bitter experience, that a hospital is often the least safe place to have a baby.

"hence why the NCT is so good at challenging that in their classes or at least I hope they are"

I can honestly say that if I'd read this thread as a student teacher it would have put me off saying anything that made it look like I was supporting parents to challenge the establishment.

i take it that the people who want NCT teachers to visit all local hospitals (certainly my teacher covered a vast geographical area) are going on the maternity ward tours themselves?

seems like a lot of people on here are expecting the NCT to do everything for them. it was the hospital who told us about electrical equipment, candles, food, where we would labour etc etc, surely we have a responsibility to be a bit clued-up ourselves?

Fabsmum, I appreciate that too, they really are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
And I also agree too many people do too little preparation themselves, I poured over books with my DD1 from 13 weeks onwards by the time I got to NCT and NHS classes I knew exactly what type of birth I wanted and really the classes were plan B if you like.
People IMO need to be very clued up in advance because once you put all the control into somebody elses hands, whoever that might be you are bound to be disappointed.

Exterminaitch - you cover all that stuff on what to take in/not to take in/eating in labour, kind of naturally when you talk about coping strategies for labour.

As a teacher I know some people will go away unhappy - the course won't suit everyone. In any one class I might have one person who is secretly phobic about labour, someone else who's desperate for a homebirth, someone else who's desperate for an epidural, someone who really, really wants to breastfeed, and someone who doesn't want to. At all. You try to cover everything and cater for everyone's needs but sometimes it feels that you're bond to offend or let down someone somewhere along the way.

And now that people are paying much higher fees there will also be folk who feel peed off at not having their needs met. Not sure what the answer is, other than to try harder! Sometimes I feel I'm tearing myself apart trying to get it right.

Aitch of course we should all take a bit of individual responsibility but my NCT teacher was in lala land, really. She told us to take scented candles, whale music and peppermint foot oil for the delivery room.

Delivery room pah! I was in there for 40 minutes. This was not because I had the world's shortest labour, this is because I was in an effing public ward. I note with some cynicism that the blardy hospital tour never mentioned that you'd have to go through 14 hours of labour in public.

As for scented candles, whale music and peppermint foot oil - words fail me...

Too be fair in the days of ipods you could have had your whale music if you'd really wanted it, I gave birth to guns and roses !

I agree, waste of time. I felt pressurised with numourous nurses telling me what is the correct way, of which was not for me as a first timer. I did have child in a hospital, my decision and happy with that.

In retrospect, I'd have gone to the free ones at the hospital.
The honest truth was I thought the NCT ones were for nice middle class people like me and I'd make some nice middle class friends like me. I've not kept in contact with any of them, we all lived so far apart and the people I now know are from Surestart baby groups.
I don't remember much from the sessions aprt from a long video where a baby soflty slurped milk from it's mum's nork. I thought that seemd nice. My daughter syphoned me like a crocodile. I've never known such agony. Oh and we did some flip chart exercises.

Just to clarify, asking who would like a straightforward, quick birth is humour. I use a lot of it in classes. I find it helps a great deal.
Of course I cover interventions etc but I don't need to justify doing that. I find I do need to justify doing relaxation/positions/birth environment because it isn't so familiar to people.
I have a very good relationship with the head of midwifery here and many of the consultant obs. I regularly go to the hospital and know many of the midwifes. The hard part in classes is being realistic with people about MRSA/staff shortages/hospital closures/out of date midwives without scaring them. Every body who comes to classes are individuals with different amounts of baggage and different views. I try to negotiate my way through this and balance what I say and how I say it. It really isn't easy sometimes and I know there will be some people who don't take to me or my way of teaching but all I can do is my best and I know that I make a difference to people's experiences of birth because people tell me and over the last 4.5 years my cs rate in my classes has been 15% and 2 thirds of those were planned. I know it may not be statistically significant, but I do believe I make a difference otherwise I would give up tomorrow.

Just to clarify, asking who would like a straightforward, quick birth is humour. I use a lot of it in classes. I find it helps a great deal.
Of course I cover interventions etc but I don't need to justify doing that. I find I do need to justify doing relaxation/positions/birth environment because it isn't so familiar to people.
I have a very good relationship with the head of midwifery here and many of the consultant obs. I regularly go to the hospital and know many of the midwifes. The hard part in classes is being realistic with people about MRSA/staff shortages/hospital closures/out of date midwives without scaring them. Every body who comes to classes are individuals with different amounts of baggage and different views. I try to negotiate my way through this and balance what I say and how I say it. It really isn't easy sometimes and I know there will be some people who don't take to me or my way of teaching but all I can do is my best and I know that I make a difference to people's experiences of birth because people tell me and over the last 4.5 years my cs rate in my classes has been 15% and 2 thirds of those were planned. I know it may not be statistically significant, but I do believe I make a difference otherwise I would give up tomorrow.

oh, and yes, birth can have outside influences which change the outcome, but so can marriage - kids for one!!! (I cover this in my course too

"She told us to take scented candles, whale music and peppermint foot oil for the delivery room"

What - scented candles? Whale music? Are you serious?

I only wish I were joking ...