To get so wound up about my dd's fussy friend...

[sabire]

who comes round OFTEN, and doesn't eat: pasta, pizza, cheese, seafood, fish, rice, tomatoes, anything in a sauce, quiche, noodles, lasagna ('never tried that!), stew argggh!

I really struggle to be accomodating, because the lesson I give my own children around food is this: you are not in a cafe and you don't get to pick and choose your meals. When someone prepares food for you it's a gift and a privilege. If you don't like it, just politely say you aren't very hungry and don't have seconds. If children say to me 'I don't like that' when they come around for a meal I just say - 'don't worry love - you don't have to eat it' but don't offer them anything else..... Is that mean?

When my dd goes to other people's houses and they say 'what would she like to eat' my answer is: 'whatever you want to give her'. Consequently my children are very unfussy compared to their friends - they eat almost anything and enjoy it. Obviously if a child was allergic to something or really repulsed by it I wouldn't expect them to eat it - but basic fussiness - I can't cope with it. I'm just worried that I'm going to turn my children into social pariahs because I won't pander to their friends' fussy eating habits.

Why don't you just ask her what she'd like and then cook that every time?

Sorted.

Tortoise, I consider a roast to be a generally good healthy meal.
I guess I think of it as suitable for all.
I don't think of 'childrens food' as any different from anyoneelses's food.
Is that not how you think about it ?

Sabire - 9:48

"No - but judging from the children of most people my dd mixes with, most of the children my dd mixes with seem to eat a diet that is made up of 'children's food'. They eat: white bread, plain pizzas, chicken nuggets, burgers, pasta with tomato sauce (usually from a jar) or tuna, roast dinners."

oh, I didn't realise there was a classification of 'childrens food'.
Yep, my ds likes all of those. Lots of kids do, I guess.

Hmm, I didn't see that.
A roast dinner is most certainly not 'children's food'.

It's a great meal (normally piled high with veg as well)

"Why is it anything to get worked up about?"

Usually it bugs me but I just try not to think about it. It's not just a problem with this one child but with both my dd's other two friends as well - one of who I look after on Monday nights when her mum is studying.

I got worked up about it last night because I'd taken this one particular child for a day out to my parents house - I was dog sitting for the day. We'd invited her on the spur of the moment - no time to go shopping and we had a longish drive to my mum's house. I'd already made her a different lunch to the other children (she didn't like cheese on toast which is what they were having) - while trying to manage three squabbling dogs and my manic plug fiddling toddler. We hadn't meant to stay so late, but eventually it got to dinner time and they were all hungry. There was quiche in my mum's fridge, plus half a dozen eggs, cheese, pasta, cherry tomatoes, some frankfurters and a pizza. There wasn't time to do baked potatoes (my mum hasn't got a microwave) or a roast dinner or chicken nuggets - the three meals I know this child will eat. My three children were starving and begging for food and I was trying to do ten things at once. I did get wound up when this child rejected every suggestion I made as to what she can have with 'I don't like that'. It struck me as completely insane that here was a normal, healthy child with no specific food intolerances or allergies - and I was completely unable to feed her without packing all 4 children into the car and legging it down to tesco's, despite having a fridge full of decent food. I ended up making my children frankfurters and scrambled eggs on toast, while dd's friend just had toast.

But I see it's the norm here to allow children to regularly dictate what they'll eat and turn their nose up at anything they're unfamiliar with - not just in their own home but in other people's. I'm obviously out of step with the right way to do things. Therefore I'll lay in a tonne of processed crap, plastic white bread, tinned spaghetti hoops, cheap meat products, cheese strings (especial favourites of mine, oversalted processed cheese that costs more pound for pound than the finest organic cheddar - teach your children to play - literally - with their food) in my freezer so I can give dd's friends what they're used to at home. Poor little buggers.

By the way - I know she doesn't eat a huge variety of meals - I have asked her what she eats and she came up with 5 dishes. I went through every single dish I could think of that she might conceivably eat at home. She has the same thing in her lunchbox every day. She's 9 and a half.

"Like when we invited friends round to dinner , I asked "anything you don't like ", " becasue I was thinking of doing minted lamb chops. It is only polite".

Err, not in the circles I move in it's not.

I am adopting a policy of least resistance with fussy ds (3). I give him food that I know he likes day in day out. His diet is healthy, but restricted and as someone doing their best not to turn food into an issue, I believe I am doing the right thing. We eat together as much as possible, so there is always 'new' food around for ds to try. He never does. I know that if I cajoled him to try something he would get upset and clam up completely.

There is a certain smugness in the view that "it's not the child's fault, it's the mums". Granted some people do feed their children crappy food, but I think this thread shows that many parents are doing their best to achieve the outcome that we all want. A child who will eat the family meal and enjoy food.

Having said that, I do not expect people to cook something different for ds, but the majority of my friends are sympathetic and will accommodate him as far as possible. I'm grateful for that and repay in kind.

It is definitely polite to check if there's anything an adult guest doesn't like/couldn't eat - eg my brother is vegetarian, my dad doesn't like seafood (makes him sick), and doesn't eat anything spicy (wonder if ds1 gets his fussiness from him tbh) - isn't the idea of inviting someone for a meal for you all to have a nice meal together, rather than to impose your ideas on food on them?

In that scenario, if the child would eat toast, then give her toast. Don't worry about the fact that she only had part of the meal the others had - I'm sure her mum won't mind.

"Therefore I'll lay in a tonne of processed crap, plastic white bread, tinned spaghetti hoops, cheap meat products, cheese strings (especial favourites of mine, oversalted processed cheese that costs more pound for pound than the finest organic cheddar" - that is the sort of statement that is just annoying - I'm sure you would say the same about my ds1. But he wouldn't eat processed cheese, wouldn't eat any meat, cheap or otherwise (except the mince/fish fingers listed above), wouldn't eat spaghetti hoops, and is quite happy with brown bread. It just shows a lack of understanding that perhaps parents of fussy children are DOING THEIR BEST to get some nutrition into their children.

"But I see it's the norm here to allow children to regularly dictate what they'll eat and turn their nose up at anything they're unfamiliar with."

No, I don't think that is the MN norm.
It is certainly not what I do.
I think you are over-reacting.

If you don't ask your friends, who are coming round to dinner,if there is something they don't like, then fine. I do. We will have to agree to disgeree.

memoo - your ds sounds just like my smallest db- youngest of 4 too! He was always tiny as a child, always smallest in his year (august birthday), had the appetite of a bird- this was the boy who could eat 4 peas and say 'I'm full Mummy'.
When he was small, he just required less energy.

He makes up for it now though! In his mid-twenties, is a rower- during racing season he eats 6 or 8 full cooked meals a day!
Eats like a horse the rest of the time, not an ounce of fat on him.

Children are all different- I am thankful almost every day that my dd is a good eater, and will try anything new- but this is her personality, not anything I have done to her!

I expect you would have a whole different story if people such as jimjams/yurt came on this thread- children on the autistic spectrum (and with other conditions) really do have issues with food- food touching, textures, appearance, colour etc.

My colleague's son has an extremely rare genetic condition, which along with lots of health problems comes with complete refusal to allow food by mouth- the only food he can tolerate to put in his mouth is lemons- which he sucks but does not eat/swallow.

biggermanprison - is 'jumbly' foor stuff lke risotto or pasta in sauce????

sabire

How would advise me to stop ds 'dictating' what he puts in his mouth?

Really, I would love to hear your views?

That does sound like a pain in the arse Sabire, but I would just give her toast and not worry. She will eat again when she gets home if she's still hungry. Every family is different - isn't that an important message you could give your chn, if you're worrying about them picking up on other people's eating habits?

So she had toast. Great. Problem solved. I am sure no one minded.
Apart from you. OBVIOUSLY.

If you have this child over every week, can't you find out what she eats and then use that as a starting point. So she eats toast - so what about making eggs on toast, but the children can assemble it themselves - so if she doesn't want to put any egg on her toast she can have the toast plain.

If we have pizzas when we have friends over, then I get the children to make the pizzas themselves - ds1 will often just put the cheese on the dough, dd will load hers with peppers/mushroom/onion/sweetcorn/cheese/tomato sauce and ds2 will have ham and bacon. If you start off with the foods as constituent parts, then she has the chance to have the bits she likes, rather than rejecting the whole. I think if you have her once a week then it would be worth making the effort to do that, as it would make mealtimes less stressful for you and for your children as well, and very much less stressful for the child. Bear in mind that ds1 if he gets at all anxious can't eat ANYTHING - his response to anxiety is to shut down his appetite and eat nothing.

"Why don't you just ask her what she'd like and then cook that every time?"

Maybe other people are happier to do this because they ask their own children what they want to eat and then give them that.

I don't (generally) do that with my children.

My children get the food I make and if they don't like it they don't have to eat it, but they don't get offered anything else.

That works well for us as a family. But as I've said, judging from this thread - it's not the norm. The norm is to cater for children's individual tastes - even if it means cooking bland, boring or unhealthy food for everyone else, or cooking different meals for different people. I just think life is too short and rudeness and ingratitude shouldn't be fostered and given tacit approval by other people in the community outside the immediate family.

But Sabire - I don't allow DD to eat any of those things, but I manage to accomodate other children who do. I'm not saying that it's right that these children eat that way - it's not, but I always feel guilty if I don't try.

So on most playdates I'll offer something like homemade pizza (on turkish bread or pitta bread or wholemeal crumpets) with a side salad and fruit salad with sorbet for afters. For lunch I'll do a picnic with lots of different things and let them pick.

It's really not my place to judge, but I'll stick to my values of no processed food and try to accomodate them as much as possible.

I do understand your problem with the playdate and in that situation I would also have offered toast.

"I think if you have her once a week then it would be worth making the effort to do that, as it would make mealtimes less stressful for you and for your children as well, and very much less stressful for the child."

I'm just going to ask her mother to feed her before she comes over or take her home by meal times. Problem solved.

I thought the point of a playdate was for the children to have fun, not be assessed and challenged on their eating habits. How much trouble is it, really, to be a bit flexible? Honestly, if this type of thing winds you up this much now, your posts when your kids hit the teenage years are going to be SO entertaining!

"Why don't you just ask her what she'd like and then cook that every time?"

"Maybe other people are happier to do this because they ask their own children what they want to eat and then give them that."

My kids get no choice but you are talking about a GUEST, someone you want to be happy and comfortable in your house. She had toast, your kids had something else, it was a situation out of the norm because you weren't at home. I really dont get why you are being so stressy and judgemental about this, extrapolating wildy from your experiences with this one child to the whole of the UK child population?

Sabire, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of pandering to kids' fussiness and if parents just ignore it, they'll eat when they're hungry. There is no child in the world that will refuse to eat if they're really hungry.

It is annoying having to cater for fussy eaters. I don't do it anymore. The policy in my house is if you don't eat what you're given at meal times, you don't eat anything. It's not my job to teach a visiting child not to be fussy but nor is it my job to cater for their every whim. It is important how a parent responds to their fussy child.

One child used to come to lunch/supper regularly and I would serve up homemade fish cakes, pasta dishes, rice, pizza - all sorts of varied foods. He'd just turn up his nose every time. And then his mum would then give him ice cream and strawberries and biscuits regardless. So where's his impetus to eat proper food when he knew he'd just get all the sweet stuff anyway. My DS started to copy this child's fussiness but soon realised he wasn't going to get anything else, especially not sweet things!

I just arrange play dates that don't involve food other than snacks. I can't be bothered with it as I've got enough to do already.

I am of course discounting allergies.

"it's the norm here to allow children to regularly dictate what they'll eat"

Well as it happens I don't think there is anything all that wonderful in forcing anyone to eat things they don't like. In fact it's a fairly outrageous suggestion when you think about it. Adults might learn to control and hide their likes and dislikes. Children generally haven't. I would never ask someone to my house without checking what they like to eat - I have friends who don't like seafood or games for instance. Why should they be forced to eat something they dislike because I failed to ask a simple question?

And why do you assume that 'fussy' children only like processed crap? Sometimes they might eat a restricted diet but a perfectly healthy one.

Sabire I do generally agree with you. I think there are two separate issues here and as ever, the parenting argument has got people riled.

1. There are some children who refuse all kinds of foods whatever their parents do and the parents aren't to blame.

2. There is, however, a massive culture in this country of thinking children can't enjoy complex and interesting foods or share adult foods, and pandering to children so as not to ever upset them (which happens with other situations besides food too) - and this leads to a huge incidence of very fussy children who have an extraordinarily narrow diet and are rude and demanding to boot. I'm with you in that I find that very annoying - it's irritating in itself, and it bugs me that as you say so many people don't seem to see that giving your child a repeated rota of just a few bland foods will in the long term set them up for ill health.

I get annoyed about this and I'm only dealing with 3yos at the moment! - but it's already obvious to me that some parents will say "Oh DD can't have that, she only likes cheese sandwiches" and never, ever push the envelope. So DD always gets a plain cheese sandwich and never learns the value of experimenting or that she might discover something new that she likes.

I too have a DS who will eat most foods and happily try new foods and yes I do think it has something to do with what you call family food culture. I ate everything while pg and breastfeeding; we have always given him adult food and asked him to try a bit of everything, while never making a fuss about him rejecting things, just trying them again a bit later. If that doesn't make a difference, then why is always it the official advice in any book or article you care to read?

BUT there are some foods DS dislikes - one is tomatoes - and I can imagine if your child just naturally rejects most foods it must be hard work. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of parents who are encouraging this fussiness and doing their DC no favours at all.

"Sabire, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of pandering to kids' fussiness and if parents just ignore it, they'll eat when they're hungry."

Oh this really is the biggest pile of cr*p.

Why is it crap? Have you actually tried it?

My DD is very fussy

She is also very polite

Recently when visiting my (childless) SIL she ate an egg that SIL had prepared and at the last mouthful projectile vomited it across the table

Perhaps you would like her for dinner?