To get so wound up about my dd's fussy friend...

[sabire]

who comes round OFTEN, and doesn't eat: pasta, pizza, cheese, seafood, fish, rice, tomatoes, anything in a sauce, quiche, noodles, lasagna ('never tried that!), stew argggh!

I really struggle to be accomodating, because the lesson I give my own children around food is this: you are not in a cafe and you don't get to pick and choose your meals. When someone prepares food for you it's a gift and a privilege. If you don't like it, just politely say you aren't very hungry and don't have seconds. If children say to me 'I don't like that' when they come around for a meal I just say - 'don't worry love - you don't have to eat it' but don't offer them anything else..... Is that mean?

When my dd goes to other people's houses and they say 'what would she like to eat' my answer is: 'whatever you want to give her'. Consequently my children are very unfussy compared to their friends - they eat almost anything and enjoy it. Obviously if a child was allergic to something or really repulsed by it I wouldn't expect them to eat it - but basic fussiness - I can't cope with it. I'm just worried that I'm going to turn my children into social pariahs because I won't pander to their friends' fussy eating habits.

Sabire, it is not that you were wound up with the girls rudeness and reluctance to even try other foods. I think what people have gotten upset about is your holier than thou stance. Maybe us mums are getting a bit tired of the whole nanny state thing and you are a personal representation of it. I remember once going to a fete with DD and there was a health stand there, the woman spotted my DD in her pram and literally trampled over people to hand me a pile of leaflets telling me that she MUST have 5 a day, and how i could get them into her. Even had big bright pictures of apples on it with nice ticks next to a picture of sweets with a big red cross - just in case i didn't understand. My mouth was opening and shutting but no sound was coming out. OK, so, that day DD was in her bashed out old MacClaren buggy that could really do with a wash, DD was grubby from being on the beach, i had my arms out, complete with tattoos and pulled back hair, ala croydon face lift. I wonder if she would have pounced on me if i were in my smart clothes and DD was in her bugaboo.

So i do think that whilst everyone is shouting at you, you are almost forcing this disagreement when obviously what you say makes absolute sense. We have NO money just now, we have struggled really since DD was born, but we don't eat processed crap, we are not lentil weavers either. We just eat OK food, its what we have always eaten. Having DD does make me ensure that the meals are more balanced but thats about it really. This used to bother me, but now, you know what, its fine. My DD is healthy, she is not fat or lacking in IQ because i dont dose her up with omega oils every day. I just resent being told at almost every junction, how to feed my child.

I find your comments about a poor area patronising as well. We are poor, that doesn't mean we are uneducated, i have a PhD and my partner is a craftsman. Circusmtances have contrived that we are in financial difficulty, it doesnt automatically transpire taht we will therefore feed our children on shit.

NOW really, enough is enough - stop digging yourself further into a hole, and get on with feeding your child in the very healthy way for which you should be applauded. When the friend comes around, find ways to offer her exciting foods if you feel this is your moral duty, but if not - well its not really your concern.

i would have thought the polite way to handle it would be to offer her whatever you've made and if she doesn't want it, she can have a sandwich. i wouldn't do that with my own ds, or he'd live on sandwiches, but would do for guest child as seems mean not to offer a trouble free alternative.

you could also tell the mum what you're serving up and suggest to her that her dd brings own food if she won't want it (given she's super fussy eater, the mum surely wouldn't take offence?).

Sabire

Have you considered that the child's eating problems stem from the fact that maybe she wasn't breastfed as a baby ?

I have 2 children parented in exactly the same way, one will eat almost anything, one won't.

it is Just Not Fair to criticise someone for answering questions that have been addressed to her. not fair at all. nor is it to hold her enblematic for the supposed nanny state. i think A Lot of perspective has been lost.

plus, there's surely no way that you can parent two children identically, is there?

I am going to repeat what I have said on the other thread....

I do agree with what you say about the fact that it can be down to the parent and what they choose to feed them. Of course it can be.

But this is a sensitive subject for those of us who have fussy eaters.

I feel as a rule, most of the mothers/fathers who come onto MN are of a reasonable intelligence and are not the kind of people to feed their children rubbish because they won't eat anything else. That's why everyone on here is getting cross and sensitive about the comments you have made.

To everyone else, I think we just have to agree that Sabire will never understand how difficult this is as she has never had to deal with it. It's the same with a lot of subjects. People don't understand when they haven't been through it. They can try, but that isn't the same. For example, I don't have a child with special needs. I have friends who do and have tried very hard to understand how it must be, but at the end of the day, I don't have to deal with that kind of situation day in day out. I have had a stillborn baby. People try to understand, even say they do, but if they have never experienced it, how could they possibly understand.

I think what everyone has been trying to say, again and again, is that you can't make a judgement if you don't really have any experience of it.

i just saw that post, squirdle, having not ventured onto the other thread until now. seems very sensible to me. it is a sensitive issue, it's got to be, and tbh if sabire didn't know that before i'm sure she does now...

D'ya think so Aitch

... little bit, squirds...

Another example of a debate becoming unecessarily polarised.

Really, I think that if only all those against sabire would concede that her point about there being many children in the UK who have a poor diet as a result of the choices their parents make on their behalf(obviously not chikdren of MNer's though) is factual.

AND for sabire to concede that there are also children who despite thier parents best efforts to feed them a healthy and varied diet, choose themselves to eat a limited range of food for a period of thier childhood, is a common experience.

Then we'd all go 'oh, yeah, then I guess we kind of agree...'

'so, what shall we talk about now?'

I am feeding DD chicken schnitzel from the butchers at the moment as she need a bit of fattening up. It pleases me that she munches on it and I don't give 2 hoots about the fat content. I feel good that my fussy eater is eating. I am not a bad parent.The OP was not discussing childhood obesity - plenty of threads on that already.

Now lets discuss this from another thread - "chickens vaginas". Do they really exist?

sabire, what a load of tosh. Ive asked you to explain your generalisations and answer my questions if that is bullying then you really need to ask yourself if internet discussion forums are the best place for you.

Just saw this thread. 2 yr DD will not eat sweet things, fruit, choco, etc. but grabbed fried white bait (heads, eyes & all) off DH's plate loving it.

My MIL who was a non-fussy eater and chubby child is in therapy (dealing with cancer). Younger sister v picky eater and slim. MIL got parental approval for cleaning her plate while younger sis got attention for not liking her dinner.
no judgement, just for info.

what kind of kid doesn't like pizza!!

you said the child comes over often so, no you shouldn't pander too much. it depends if you have invited him or it's one of those last minute "mom, can johnney stay for dinner... again?". if it's like that, no pandering. and count your blessings that you have children that enjoy eating different food. it's lucky... considering the other thread.

chefswife - pizza is a really complicated food if you have a child like mine - it is bread, tomato sauce, cheese and other toppings all touching each other, you can't separate the bits....

YABU.

Dreadfully tiresome as well.

tortoiseshell that's too bad. i loved pizza as a kid (and still do) but i can relate to the food not touching other food on a plate. i hated gravy.

Sabire, YANBU in my (humble ) opinion: I am a fussy eater, and 2 of my 4 children are pretty fussy. But they are not rude. By 9 years old my children can visit another house/ country and accept what is put on the plate without kicking up a fuss, even if they don't like it. My proudest Mommy moment was when dd1 aged 10 came home from a sleepover and said that the family had taken her to Sunday lunch at their Granny's house. There, she explained, she had eaten 6 Brussels Sprouts. Because they had been put on her plate. She hates them. She had never, ever touched them before. She tried, and I was really proud of her: for trying them, and for knowing that making a fuss would be rude. Giving in all the time to fussing (and as I said before, I am very fussy ) makes life very difficult for them late, out there in an adult world away from all the tasty non-confrontational healthy AND unhealthy meals we cook because we know they like them.

Sabire, I do think alot of people have been quite unkind to you. It is the bad side of mumsnet that it can get quite nasty.
I think you first post upset people by sending them off in the wrong direction. There are 2 different issue here.1. a fussy eatter (which can be for a variety of reasons) and 2.someone who has only been introduced to a limit range of foods and they are two different things. Here it doesn't sound like the friend wont eat because she's fussy, it sounds like she had a limited diet at home and is not prepared to stray from what she knows. Which is probably quite normal when out of your home environment.
I too can get worked up about the state of diets for a large percentage of children's in the UK. Especially the link between increasing mental health issues (especially increased aggression) and the lack of the correct balance in essential fatty acids in industrialised food today. I do my best to avoid processed food myself but I know I can't single handedly change UKs eating habits. The best you can do is give this friend bread and butter, make as little issue of it as possible and hope that by sitting down with your family, watching how you all eat a different and varied diet will settle somewhere in her consciousness. It may not be apparent now but later in life she may draw from her experiences with your family. Seeing you as a warm and welcoming family with a healthy attitude to food will effect her far more than a strong possibly intimidating confrontation.

I must admit what particulary annoys me about the original comment is the smugness of the writer that it is her parenting that means her children eat everything. My youngest will eat anything including on one notable occasion, to the horror of the waitress, galpenos peppers and will demand to try new things. The eldest is a different kettle of fish. He just isn't really interested in food and if you didn't give him a meal at all he probably wouldn't notice. Every six months or so I make a concerted effort to get him to try something new by offering something gradually (ie one baked bean). Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. He becomes very panicky when confronted with new food almost as if he is going to have a panic attack and I do think there are psycological reasons. He was fed through a tube up his nose for the first three days of his life and then for the next 18 months he had unexplained vomitting after eating. Even at that age he wasn't particulaly keen on his milk. I just don't think he associates food with being a pleasurable experience.

Having said all that I never expect anyone to make anything special for him if he eats out (his only proper meals are pasta, sausage and sweet corn or pork,peas and mashed potato). I live in the vain hope that he may discover something new that he will eat when with his peers. However when he has a friend to visit I would make sure that I made something the guest would eat as I think that is just common courtesy as a hostess.

My sister has the same smugness as you do as her only child will eat anything however he is also a self centred little brat due to a bad case of only childitis which my sister fails to see.

On one occasion she was cooking a pasta dish and I asked her just to give my son just a plain bowl of buttered pasta with sweetcorn (which she was making anyway). However she knew better and covered the pasta with a sauce. Consequently my son became very upset and I was furious as it really wasn't her place to make a force my son to eat and cause him a big upset.

Only read first 20 or so posts so sorry if repeating stuff or I've missed something.

YANBU to be irritated with fussiness especially as this child is 9 and is certainly old enough to be reasoned with. YANBU to offer one choice of meal and then tough - I do this with ds1 and he is 2.5.

However, if you invite children round I do think you should try and make something that you know they like. I would ask her mum what she WILL eat and make that (assuming your child will eat it too). Then if she refuses it - tough. I don't think it's your job to make her less fussy. I share your concerns about children growing up with limited diets but this is only your business as far as it affects your children and not your place to vary the diet of your friend's child. If you don't at least try to do this I do think you are being unreasonable. If she misses a meal because she is refuding something you know from her mum that she usually eats then you can feel happy about saying tough then. If you have deliberately given her something you know she doesn't eat I think that is probably a bit unkind and thoughtless. Although I do accept that missing one meal isn't the end of the world.

And while I am sure they way you parent your children HAS helped them to be less fussy I think it is a generalisation to say that this isn't also down to the temperament of the child.

Roboshua - that sounds so like my ds1 - that panic is so difficult to deal with isn't it - and the idea of putting someone in a total panic attack and then expecting them to enjoy a meal is crazy!

Tortoiseshell. So true. My eldest is very polite (last time he went to a friend's house the mother rang me up to specifically tell me that) and he wouldn't make a big fuss about not eating something he just doesn't eat it (and I do warn the parents about it so they don't worry). I think it's because he doesn't make a fuss that I get upset when the same courtesy isn't extended to him.

On another occasion at a big family meal he was quietly eating his pasta and sweetcorn when one of the assembled company decided to give him the third degree as to why he wasn't eating some of the other things available. The tears started dripping down his face ( he can't bear to be fussed over either and have attention drawn to him). I was furious as at the age of six he'd been subjected to this personnal and public attack which is something he (nor I)would ever do to anyone else.

He is the only child I know who eats only half a packet of crisps, one biscuit or one sweet from the packet (when he's allowed two) because he's 'had enough'. He's just not interested in food even the food that most kids would gorge on.

When he first went to school I put him down for school dinners again thinking he may succumb to peer pressure but he moved to packed lunches on the day he fainted at school and I then found out he'd been regularly eating nothing at all at dinner time.

YABU!!!!!!
You cannot judge people that have kids that are fussy eaters. It is nothing to do with "Parent pandering".
If you haven't experienced a fussy eater yourself then you will not have experienced the stress that parents can feel when food is rejected time and time again.It is soul destroying

Roboshua - he is my son!!! Ds1 will eat only half a packet of crisps, hardly likes any biscuits of sweets.

I, like you, put him down for school dinners, and after half a term the teacher pulled me aside and said he HAD to have packed lunches (except on Fridays which is fish and chips!) because he had eaten nothing all day for half a term...

LucyEllensmum - I do apologise for commenting personally on what your child eats and telling you that you're doing the wrong thing. I really shouldn't have done that: I don't know anything about you or your child other than what you've told me here.

Oh, hang on a second - I didn't comment on your personal choices or your parenting skills did or tell you how you should feed your child did I?

So feck off.

"I find your comments about a poor area patronising as well. We are poor, that doesn't mean we are uneducated, i have a PhD and my partner is a craftsman. Circusmtances have contrived that we are in financial difficulty, it doesnt automatically transpire taht we will therefore feed our children on shit."

Well - good for you.

But where I live many of the mums are both poor AND uneducated and many of the children DO eat extremely poor diets. DD's school had so many children turning at in the morning without having been given anything for breakfast that they've had to start a subsidised breakfast club. Many of the children eat very, very badly indeed - allow me to make this comment - these are people I know and mix with on a daily basis. It's no reflection on YOU or YOUR family circumstances so why do you feel the need to take comments like this so personally?

"I must admit what particulary annoys me about the original comment is the smugness of the writer that it is her parenting that means her children eat everything."

I'm sick to death of the constant accusations of 'smugness'. My children are ordinary kids - like most other children they are suspicious of new foods, prefer sweet and salty foods, and bland textures. We went through a 2 year phase with dd when she moaned for plastic white bread every single day and complained that wholemeal bread made her sick (not sick enough to stop her hoovering up toast and sandwiches made from it though). If I had gone for an easy life and only given them the food I knew they definitely liked I would have three children on my hands now with very different eating habits. I'm sorry if all your kids are also fussy and you've not been able to find a way round this despite everything you've done, but I HAVE - OK - maybe there is some luck there because children change anyway, but I have also put a lot of thought, hard work and perseverence into this side of my family life and I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to feel some sense of achievement over this. So why don't you stop putting ME down in the service of making yourself feel better about the fact that you're still really struggling with your children's eating.

"You cannot judge people that have kids that are fussy eaters. It is nothing to do with "Parent pandering""

Sorry - but sometimes it DOES have something to do with what's going on in the home. As I said - it's natural for children to be fussy and suspicious of new foods. The fact that some children continue to eat a very narrow range of foods IS sometimes down to the way their diets are managed by their parents. Not all parents eat good diets themselves - surely you can see this. Many people in the UK eat diets that are very limited, and they're bound to pass these bad habits on to their children. I don't see why this is such a controversial view. Haven't you read the newspapers for the last 10 years and noticed all the articles about our high rates of diet related cancers and obesity in the UK?

"I think it is a generalisation to say that this isn't also down to the temperament of the child"

Yes - except I've acknowledged this, more than once. But it's more convenient for everyone to ignore the fact I've said it so they can carry on being smug and judgemental while attacking me for being .........smug and judgemental.

Roboshua - I don't make a 'big fuss' if children don't eat at my house. I offer them something, if they don't want it they aren't made to feel they have to eat it. In the case of the particular child I mentioned on the occasion I got annoyed - I actually offered her the choice of every single thing in the fridge and she said 'I don't like that' to every thing I came up with, apart from toast, which was what she ate in the end.