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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this woman is a cow? (topic may offend/upset)

432 replies

crazybuslady · 15/07/2008 15:14

Was waiting for a bus yesterday, while at bus stop I saw a mother, dd (approx age 4) and grandma come to bus stop, had seen them earlier walking down the street.

DD didnt want to go on the bus she was crying saying she wanted to stay with granny. Mother mentioned to granny than dd was tired - hadnt slept that day. Mother started to wind the child up eg "you ARE going on the bus"..."noooo mummy dont want to" ..."well you are so there!"

Petty back and forth argument which was frankly rediculas, dd tried to walk away from the bus stop, the mother turned it in to an almost game, mother was laughing and chasing her but shouting swear words at her and telling her she was going to "batter you when we get in" I was Then heard a whack, and looked round to see the mum hit the child 2x. Child started sobbing - from her point of view mum was chasing her laughing next min she was being hit)

Now hittings not to my taste, but I realise some people do this so I just tried to look away - small bus stop though so not really possible.

Child was then wingey (was being ignored by mum who only spoke to her to swear at her) Child then said "I am NOT goin on bus I want to go to grannys" (I though no fekking wonder) And the mother literally dragged dd by her arm along ground. DD fell to ground sobbing, mother grabbed her collar and lifted her up by it shouting and swearing and whacked her 5 more times.

At this point bus came, I told woman if she hit her dd in my sight once more id call police. (Now in retrospect I shouldnt have said that, I should have just called, but I was furious and not thinking straight) We got on same bus mother told me to "fucking go ahead then"...so I did. (mother was now dragging child up bus by arm, I dont mean pulling I mean literally dragging, then whacking her again when she wouldnt sit on seat.

Police car was sent right away but didnt arrive in time before she got off the bus I gave a description etc. But as she got off woman threatened to "batter my face in, if she hadnt got the child with her" (I felt like saying go on then, Id rather take the pain than a poor child, then you will go to prison, child will go to foster care and be better off)

I wish Id followed them, police didnt get them If I ever see them again will phone again.

If she does that in public wtf does she do at home.

OP posts:

sarah293 · 15/07/2008 15:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

belgo · 15/07/2008 15:57

I'm also not sure if I would have been brave enough to call the police. I like to think I would have, but I really don't know how I would have reacted.

LilRedWhiskGers · 15/07/2008 15:57

Too true RB.

ShadowyMariaMiller · 15/07/2008 15:58

IRRLEVANT
of anything
s he shodul not hit hte kid so many times
if at all

Original poster

crazybuslady · 15/07/2008 15:59

Thank you everyone. Its been useful to get this out, its been eating me up. I keep replaying it in my head, and I think...whats happening when she gets home. Im a childline telephone counsellor, you think id be used to this but when you see it happening

I got home and just sobbed. Anyway thanks, Im going to go and have a cup of tea and calm down again. x

OP posts:

ShadowyMariaMiller · 15/07/2008 16:01

btw what did the police say

ShadowyMariaMiller · 15/07/2008 16:02

and did anyone back you up?

3littlefrogs · 15/07/2008 16:02

If I saw an adult hitting a teenager, or a teenager hitting another teenager like that I would call the police. An adult hitting a small child is even worse IMO. So why is calling the police OTT?

Spero · 15/07/2008 16:04

I think we do need to get rid of the reasonable chastisement defence. No one would stop for a second to doubt that this was a criminal assault if it involved two adults.

Original poster

crazybuslady · 15/07/2008 16:04

SMM - were very very interested, took every single detail what way they walk to bus stop, clothes, hair, what bags, every detail you could imagine. 2 cars were looking for them but I suspect they got off bus near thier home and went in so the cars were pointless. They said without names/address was nothing further they could do.

OP posts:

davidtennantsmistress · 15/07/2008 16:04

agree with belgo mines only 2.5 but if he's having a tantrum for the most part he's ignored, if i'm in a rush and he won't budge he's told enough now, and picked up, we get on and then i settle him - if i'm loosing my rag he's kicked in the garden for 5, or a cartoon is on while i calm down.

the gran was as much at fault - my family only have to see i look stressed and take DS for half an hour for me - the mother didn't have to smile as the granddaughter was being beaten - which lets face it is what it was.

if it gets to the stage where i feel i have to strike my child then i've lost control of the situation. that's not to say I haven't - I have once and only once - promptly rang mum told her what I did and said come and get him.

you can get your point across without swearing at your child - example i said, no enough now.

Original poster

crazybuslady · 15/07/2008 16:05

No SMM...no one backed her up either though.

OP posts:

ShadowyMariaMiller · 15/07/2008 16:08

i think welldone

Joolyjoolyjoo · 15/07/2008 16:09

I'm usually a bit wary of the ardent anti-smackers/ anti-discipline brigade, and I usually try to have a bit of empathy with parents, but this woman sounds like a nutter! I think you were right to confront her, I'd like to think it would make her think twice about behaving like that in future. If noone says anything when she behaves like this, she might think that everyone does it and it is ok which is obviously not true!!

Yeah, 4 year olds can be frustrating- I have a 4 yr old and a 3 yr old to contend with as well as an 8mth baby, and I have dealt with MANY public tantrums over the years. I refuse to get embarrassed and play to the audience to defuse things and make myself feel calmer. I've walked out of shops many a time with a screaming writhing child under one arm, smiling at gawpers and shouting cheerfully "It's a lovely age isn't it?" despite seething inside and wanting to throw things! If I can reign my temper in (and I have quite a temper!), I can't understand why she can't. I do understand mums shouting and ranting at kids and I often feel for them, but what the OP suggests is a big bit more uncomfortable than that, to me

justkeepswimming · 15/07/2008 16:09

crazybuslady - you judged and you were RIGHT to judge. sometimes the WRONG thing is happening, and well done you for trying at least.

Maybe everyone else on the bus may just think about trying to help if they see something wrong happening in front of them in the future - and maybe she gets the bus regularly, so you may have set the ball rolling....

I feel so sorry for that little girl, and for you for feeling so shaken by it all.
I'm pleased that the police were interested & responsive though.

Well done you, hope i would have been as brave.

cocolepew · 15/07/2008 16:10

You probanly feel crap, but you did the right thing. There's a woman I detest, I heard her screaming at her daughter calling her names I wouldn't even use, and pushing her. The teacher was a witness to this so I went on to work. I felt so sorry and sad for the girl and was shaking for ages.

cocolepew · 15/07/2008 16:10

Collision · 15/07/2008 16:12

Good for you CBlady! Well done for sticking your neck out for a little girl!!

There is no excuse for swearing at a child.

A lady at school cannot seem to speak to her 3 year old without effing at him and if I hear her again I am going to report her....not just for that but for the general behaviour she shows at school and for saying 'effing c**t' at a taxi driver outside school last week.

and why you have to so contentious KerryMum is beyond me.

You accused your ds's teacher of almost child abuse a couple of weeks ago and yet what CBL did wasn't right??

cory · 15/07/2008 16:16

The problem is that if you push KerryMum's argument too far, you would never intervene when a child was being hit- and children do get battered to death in this country on a regular basis. Almost by parents or step-parents who are having a bad time and are at the end of their tether.

So if 7 or 8 heavy thumps are not enough to intervene- what would be? Wait until the child is unconscious? Or would heavy bruises do?

Presumably even the posters whose sympathy is with the mother think there is some sort of cut-off point? I mean there are parents who actually beat their children to death. Surely there must be some point at which one ought to intervene as a citizen? But where does it lie?

And before you start sneering at the idea that this stressed and unhappy mother could actually end up causing a serious injury, I remember a case not far from where I used to live. It was thought to be a paedophile who had murdered the child until eventually the mother broke down and confessed. Child was about 4 or 5, whingey and difficult, mother was stressed, she lost patience and shook her - and broke her neck. All the sympathy in the world doesn't change the fact that the child was dead. If someone had been there, if someone had called the police, then she would have lived to grow up. We do need to remember that we are a lot stronger than young children and can do them a lot of harm.

elmoandella · 15/07/2008 16:25

lol joolyjoo, many a shopping expediture turns into a rugby tackling practice.

frasersmummy · 15/07/2008 16:26

I am with Km on this one... calling the police on a mother just trying to get stubborn child onto bus is OTT

You say there were others at the bus stop but they pretended not to see??? Could this be because it wasnt as bad as you thought ??

I am inclined to think if the child was being as badly mistreated as you make out that others at the stop/on the bus would have backed you up.

frasersmummy · 15/07/2008 16:26

I am with Km on this one... calling the police on a mother just trying to get stubborn child onto bus is OTT

You say there were others at the bus stop but they pretended not to see??? Could this be because it wasnt as bad as you thought ??

I am inclined to think if the child was being as badly mistreated as you make out that others at the stop/on the bus would have backed you up.

TinkerBellesMum · 15/07/2008 16:27

Belgo, she didn?t think I was going to suffocate her, she said she had nothing on lol! I use a wrap and when under my coat we have the same amount of layers on, I don?t put a hat on her because she tucks her head in when I?m walking. You do have to worry about some people, don?t you?

Kerrymum, you?d have problems convincing a CPSW that was ?reasonable chastisement! Some areas have a zero tolerance policy.

I agree with everyone who said you wouldn?t ignore it if it wasn?t a child and was another adult. How about if it was an elderly parent with Alzheimer?s? They?re being difficult, walking off, refusing to get on the bus and the woman started smacking her parent and dragging them? Why is it reasonable to hit a child who can?t defend them self?

Mercy · 15/07/2008 16:28

But the police obviously thought it was bad enough from the OP's to send a car and then take various details.

WinkyWinkola · 15/07/2008 16:30

Or could it be that most people do tend to just walk on by so to speak, when there's any trouble and don't want to get involved. It doesn't mean the situation isn't serious. Other people's reactions is by no means an accurate barometer of how bad a situation is.

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