To suggest that a new mum who "has" to go back to work, reluctantly, after maternity leave, could down-size from her five-bedroom house and thereby afford to stay at home?

[Twoddle]

I have a good friend who really does have to go back to work when her maternity leave ends later this month. She and her husband genuinely can't afford to live without both their salaries so, as much as she'd like to stay home longer, she can't.

Another friend's sister, however, was pulling the "It's all right for some mums, hanging around at home all day - some of us have to go back to work" line. Knowing that she lives in a four-bedroom house and is having a loft conversion and buys everything new for the home and for the soon-to-arrive baby and has a bit of a clothes-buying habit ... well, I tactfully and carefully suggested to my friend that maybe her sister didn't have to return to work so soon if it was important for her to be at home for longer with her child. I said she could downsize to a smaller home, maybe cut back on some spending, and then be able to afford to extend her maternity leave - if she so wished.

Said friend warned me through a steely glare never to say such words to her sister, and the atmosphere was abysmal between us for the rest of the evening.

Was my suggestion so unreasonable, in the circumstances?

Silly me for playing devil's advocate ...

This isn't a new thought (I read it on a similar thread to this) but I am glad in a way that one of the reasons I have to work is financial. (many other reasons too which lots of you will understand). BUT it does shut up about 99% of the judgers when you mention the financial aspect of it.

Then you get the odd idiot who persists in giving you loads of good ideas along the lines of what UQD's mum said. Ooh, just think you could live on beans on toast for ten years, and buy all your clothes from Primark, and never go on holiday ever again etc and loads of other crap fab advice that of course they follow themselves.

I have always made it very clear that I went back to work early and enthusiastically, and have never ever had any even remotely negative comments about it.

But I haven't felt guilty about it, maybe if you're feeling guilty you take comments in a different way to if you're pretty certain of what you're doing.

It is not unusual for people who earn tons more than me and my dh say they couldn't possibly afford to work part time like we do and that we are 'lucky'. It's very I'd much rather they said they loved their work and take responsibility for their decisions.

Anyway I am off to work in a bit myself, so shall look forward to tonight and reading the rest of the 200 posts that may appear later, along with the various "message deleteds" that may occur as things get heated.

I know what you are saying re the going back to work bit (been there and done it)

But on the flip side though

It often seems / feels unnaccceptable for women to be able to say 'I'm choosing to stay at home with my children, I know it will be difficult financially and we'll have to give up holidays and fashion and lots of things but it feels right for us to do this"

I can't tell you the looks of sympathy I get for being a full-time mother and the constant questions about when I'm going to go back to work, the cocked-to-one-side heads in sympathy for my 'plight'

There is even one friend who bores me rigid with dull stories of work because she feels I'm missing out .. poor me .. poor me ... looking after my children with no outside interests and little disposable income to spend on just us .. poor poor me ... no FUCK OFF I chose this just as you chose yours .. we made concessions in our life to do this

"well, I tactfully and carefully suggested to my friend that maybe her sister didn't have to return to work so soon if it was important for her to be at home for longer with her child. I said she could downsize to a smaller home, maybe cut back on some spending, and then be able to afford to extend her maternity leave"

Doesn't matter how tactfully you think you said it, it's impossible to give an opinion on these very sensitive subjects without being seen to be interfering. If you're comfortable being seen that way, fine, if you're not, then probably best to pass the subject by without comment.

It does set my teeth on edge when people say I am 'lucky' to be able to stay at home (altho I am working 2 days a week atm), as they have no idea what our financial situation is/whether we're getting into debt to do it etc.

I sometimes have similar thoughts to the OP about the standard of living that some people want to maintain, but wouldn't say it out loud as it's not really any of my business.

God, I think almst everyone projects where this subject is concerned. Really, there is bugger all you can say about it without causing offence.

And Blu, come on, Twoddle didn't say anything of the sort. She was replying to someone saying how sad it was she HAD to go back to work (unlike those who could 'hang around at home all day')

I don't know why it would seem/feel unaccetable to say you're staying at home. I've never known any of my friends who are SAHMs to feel like that. Perhaps it's the circles you move in Twig.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Woman in question was rude to make stupid comments about SAHM's. Doesn't mean OP's response was ok though. She was therefore BU.

Oh come on, there was the Katie Roiphe interview in the Times (with MN thread on it) with tedious KR drivelling about how 'disappointed' she was with women she knew dumbing themselves down by looking after their kids.
I found it pretty offensive and I work!

I think it depends a lot on what your neighbours/friends do, yes. Just about everyone I know has gone back to work at least part time. Just about every day I get the "so what are you going to DO with all your time once ds2 goes to school" and are flabbergasted that I haven't got the appointments pages of the newspaper permanently open.

Actually, I do have some plans for something that probably won't bring any money in, but is a project I am not ready to share yet, but why should I have to keep justifying myself? Dh is happy, the kids are happy and I'm happy that I'm not rushing back to work the second September starts.

I think I'm just living in an area where most people went back to work at the latest when their youngest was 2 (and had family to help with childcare which made it more financially viable) so the concept of staying at home seems a bit... unusual.

I agree Rubberduck. I was v v relieved when I realised every single woman in our NCT antenatal group was going back to work.

People still make crass comments though - we were all taking 9 month off, but one woman was getting 6 months full pay. One of the other women declared, "if I was getting full pay for 6 months I'd take a year off". Wtf did she know about the other woman's situation?? Sorry, bit of a tangent, but it really annoyed me at the time.

I agree with those who say that this is the socially acceptable reason to give to go back to work. Saying that you want to work because you need more intellectual stimulation than you get at home with a baby can be construed as offensive to SAHMs. I think in real life SAHMs and WOHMs are both very aware that people will critise their choices and are anxious to give the least contentious reasons for them.

This person doesn't have to go back to work but I think that she should be allowed her excuse if that's what she's decided to say to people.

I think it IS acceptable to say you're lucky to be able to stay at home. Regardless of how spartan your life is, you can live without bringing in income. That is lucky. Most people's mortgages etc are totally based on two salaries now and you can afford it on one.

I don't think describing women who don't go back to work as 'hanging around the house all day' shows a very strong need to be sensitive about other people choices!
But hey, as she doesn't actually have any children yet it can be put down to ignorance, I suppose, and be worthy of nothing more than rolled eyes, and a 'we'll see how easy she finds it when the baby's born'.

I think if you live in a big house, earn a large salary, have a big pension pot, have no debt and go on holidays abroad every year, then tell someone who has none of those things that they are 'lucky' to stay at home then you are 'lucky' to get away without a big slap!

To be fair if someone was rude about my choice to stay at home and be skint as anything then I would feel well within my rights to point out something to do with her choices. Our mortgage is based on two peoples incomes we just go without a hell of a lot to pay it on one. Our choice but I cetainly don't sit around all day and if someone told me thats what I did they would get both barrels. I couldn't afford to go back to work anyway so ours is really the only option for us.

Can I ask the OP why you raised this with her sister rather than with the woman in question?

My feeling is by all means challenge someone if they're pulling a 'poor me' line - but do it directly or not at all.

Otherwise, you don't get to challenge other people's choices or lifestyles, except in your own mind.

We have one DS, live in a very nice part of town, and until I was made redundant after DS arrived, we had two very good salaries coming in.

Now we really need me to go back to work - we could live on one salary but it would mean taking DS out of the nursery where he's really happy and turning his life upside down, moving to the other side of town (and we're locked into our rental contract for another goodness know how many months) which would mean a long commute for DP, etc etc.... So either I get a job or we uproot our entire life.

But to all outward appearances, we're still living in a nice house in a nice part of town so we're probably ok, right?

Sometimes things ain't what they seem.

I have a large house - and large house = large outgoings. Not that easy to downsize.

However, you make your choices and don't moan about them.

As I have been saying on another thread today, my SIL has 2 gym memberships, and is climbing Mt Kilimanjaro this summer, yet has the entire family rallying round her because 'poor XXXX has no money'. Her lifestyle choices, and none of my business, but I don't want to have to listen to all the 'poor XXX' nonsense, or to have to subsidise her.

I can understand you challenging this woman's 'poor me' attitude. It was also pretty insensitive for her to pass comment of SAHMs - are you a SAHM?

I have a feeling you may not be invited out to many more nights out with her though .

I don't think you were doing anything wrong in raising this (although depends upon your manner and intonation) - it's a discussion isn't it? I am sure you were happy for your friend to come back at you with a counter opinion.

It would have perhaps have been a bit gauche to bring up this subject out of the blue and make a judgement - but your friend raised the point about her sister having to go back to work, and you merely flagged a question regarding this.

It's a dull world if we can't talk about a whole swathe of subjects because they are too sensitive and personal

BTW, just wanted to clarify - in no way was I asking anyone to sympathise with us in my last post! Just pointing out that it's not as simple as saying 'just downsize'.

Blimey: reading some of these threads it's a miracle I ever manage to talk to my SAHM friends without them decking me!

Is there nothing to you can say to a woman - SAHM or WOHM - about her life that won't have the potential to piss her off?