To suggest that a new mum who "has" to go back to work, reluctantly, after maternity leave, could down-size from her five-bedroom house and thereby afford to stay at home?

[Twoddle]

I have a good friend who really does have to go back to work when her maternity leave ends later this month. She and her husband genuinely can't afford to live without both their salaries so, as much as she'd like to stay home longer, she can't.

Another friend's sister, however, was pulling the "It's all right for some mums, hanging around at home all day - some of us have to go back to work" line. Knowing that she lives in a four-bedroom house and is having a loft conversion and buys everything new for the home and for the soon-to-arrive baby and has a bit of a clothes-buying habit ... well, I tactfully and carefully suggested to my friend that maybe her sister didn't have to return to work so soon if it was important for her to be at home for longer with her child. I said she could downsize to a smaller home, maybe cut back on some spending, and then be able to afford to extend her maternity leave - if she so wished.

Said friend warned me through a steely glare never to say such words to her sister, and the atmosphere was abysmal between us for the rest of the evening.

Was my suggestion so unreasonable, in the circumstances?

Silly me for playing devil's advocate ...

Has anyone mentioned the husband on this thread yet? The woman's husband might be totally against her giving up work, hence her offishness about the whole subject. Luckily we could afford to cut my work to 3 days per week but under no circumstances would my DH have supported me in quitting work to become a SAHM and then having to downsize or having a completely shit lifestyle (which it would be without my salary too), so she genuinely might not have another option but to carry on working full time.

For some people cutting back their lifestyle is an absolute NO, it would make them unhappy and resentful.
I am a SAHM and I am clever enough never to say how I feel about the WOHPs and one staying at home debate in RL, it's just not worth it. Although myself and a few other SAHMs bitch occasionally about it .

It's really none of your business what she does, Twoddle.

All the many complex arrangements & practicalities, not to mentuion the mixed emotions, surrounding a woman's return to work mean that I would never dare to make any comment on another person's arrangements whatsoever unless expressly asked to. YABU.

YABU. I do know where you are coming from though, I am a SAHM and with hindsight I don't think staying at home was the necessarily the right decision for me. It really gets my goat when a couple of working mums have said to me that I am very lucky that I can afford to stay at home as they couldn't afford to, and yet they live in huge houses, have membership to a very plush health club and holiday in Australia, South Africa and Dubai! I just wish they would mind their own business and appreciate that for some of us working is not always financially viable.

Not tactful to say it but I agree with your sentiment ie that people shouldn't say they have to go back under those circumstances.

Mind you it is somewhat socially unacceptable to admit that you want to go back.

I don't think it's an unreasonable suggestion but perhaps she just wanted to moan.

Well I have frequently found people who consciously play devil's advocate can be very irritating (outside of formal debate). It may be that you think this other person's sister is a bit of a spend thrift, and that you were consciously/unconsciously comparing her to the friend who you have every sympathy to, and that came out. So you may think you were being tactful, but actually your irritation came through.

Also I agree with AuntiaSocial, if you aren't expecting it, someone coming up with lots of fixing ideas, especially if you have already considered them, can be highly irritating. My dh does this when he is trying to be supportive, and it drives me around the bend, because I hear it as "you are so stupid you probably haven't thought this through".

That's not to say you were necessarily unreasonable, just that things can be heard differently to the way you expect them.

Kew, that is true. Or a "ummmmmhhhh", when what you really think, is 'you moron'.
But then sometimes it is just too inviting, and you actually have to make a comment, that you know will ........

I used to quite enjoy my job, when I had one.....

but I think Elf is spot on - sometimes, you just want to have a moan, whatever your circumstances. I imagine the Queen moans about having to get out of bed to shake poor people's hands all day.

As I often say to DP - I don't want you to change things, just SYMPATHISE, goddamit.

My personal opinion is that staying at home with the children is very rarely a 'sacrifice' though (even if it means giving stuff up)as in my experience (including my personal experience of doing it) you really do it for yourself, not the children. After all, we all see children who have two working parents who are happy and well adjusted and love their parents, so why do we not work full time too and get the financial rewards? I suppose we do think we must be benefiting our particular children by not working full time, but surely those of us who cut down on our work or give it up doing it because either it makes us happy not to work, or at least it makes us less miserable than working full time would?

Yet again, MsDemeanor, I find myself agreeing with you (this habit has to stop).

My sister said something to me once which made perfect sense, when we found ourselves having to make a very difficult decision - she said 'I never try to decide what the right thing to do is, I just work out what it is I can do without being miserable'.

People weigh up all the factors when they make their choice about whether to work or not, and for some people staying at home makes them miserable, so they work, while others are miserable at work for whatever reason, so they stay at home. Or the lack of money makes them miserable, so they work. etc etc.

Personally, I'm a better mum to DS if I work part-time, which means I'm happier, he's happier, and DP is happier. Job done.

Yes, I have to say that since my kids started BEGGING me to be allowed to go to the after school club/breakfast club designed for working parents that it was only me who really valued the ability to pick up from/drop off to school

I'm also equally sure there'll be kids saying to their parents " I don't wanna go to the breakfast club any more, can't you take me to school like X's Mummy?"

You can't win, you can't break even, you can't quit the game.

I agree with OP..

She really is a load of twoddle...

Always nice to be agreed with (especially when re-reading post and realising how badly written it is! )

I firmly believe that staying home with my children is the best thing for them. Amoungst many other benefits it means they can attend the very best (IMO) pre school/nursery in my area, as the sessions are quite short and so working around them would be impossible. I think my young children will be more secure and well rounded individuals for me bringing them up, besides there is research that says children benefit from being with their parents... should they be in a financially viable position, not so if parents working means they escape poverty. Still shouldn't expect anyone else to choose the same as me as my children are the ones that matter to me and my decisions were made for my family.

Have no view on your post twelve other than "working around them would be impossible" which just isn't true. my Cm lives closer than I do to DS's proposed excellent nursery and will do pick up and drop off. Perfectly possible to work around.

though have to say that am a bit sad that twelvelegs might be one of my SAHM friends who whilst pleasant to my face are bitching behind my back at why I go out to work. I really hope they don't - must ask them.

I don't see what is so wrong with playing devil's advocate to the situation at all. In a conversation with a friend.

Does not sound like the op was being judgy at all.... if someone said similar to me, I'd respond in the same way! It's called conversation, and exchanging of ideas...... a bit like MN , except without quite so much of the arguing.

"So-and-so lives in mansion X, but says she just has to go back to work to afford to live... she really does not want to" "Oh, well, has she thought of perhaps downsizing a bit or cutting back on other things for a bit?"
As a question, showing interest, etc etc etc....

I love how everyone here has the "make your own choices and don't moan about it" attitude.

I have been a WOHM and a SAHM, both recently, and both times found plenty to moan about.

Maybe I'm just a whingey cow, or perhaps it's because I found myself torn by each scenario. Er... like probably every other mum and, dare I say it, dad out there.

Am I the only person who firmly believes I don't know what is best, but I hope at least it's ok? That weighing up the factors doesn't make me feel balanced but burdened on both sides. It's never simple.

I have enough guilt/ boredom/ stress (pick a day) to worry about to also whether other mothers think they've got it right and I've got it wrong.

no, I'm totally in favour of a good moan! It's very rare that people have made a choice that's ideal all round - hence choosing whatever makes you least miserable.

But yes, I do agree that these threads seem to stem from the fact that noone really feels 100% sure they're doing the right thing, and just hopes with all their strength it'll all turn out right in the end.

YANBU to OP, although I suspect you could have been more tactful about it.
I shall duck away from all the rest of the thread's digression.

oh yes, I was born to moan. I have a great life. I can't really think of anything I particulalry want to change, right now. But I do like a good moan.

Shall we hijack the thread to have a good old moan?

I like a good moan too. A good quality moan can be really ruined by someone insisting on making sensible suggestions.