Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

“Members of management” and TA’s have specific roles already, why would they be hanging about ready and available to try to coax children inside? Nobody has the time for this.

He's building a rod for his back by doing this though. Firstly there's the concerns you raised about body autonomy, puberty etc. then there's the fact that if she enjoys it and sees it as a fun game she'll start to refuse to enter class unless he does this.

Others could see and either want it themselves or take to it in a negative way.

He could get in trouble, either of them could get injured. It's not ideal really.

Agree.

I'm actually shocked at how many think it's acceptable for a man to do this to a child.

I would actually approach this in a very different way.

I would say to your DD that you saw her being lifted in and that must’ve been embarrassing for her in front of all the other children.

I would suggest to her that if she doesn’t want this to happen again, she should just walk into school as school is not optional and she is embarrassing herself with that behaviour. At 9 she should have enough self awareness to want to avoid this scenario.

Reiterate that staying at home isn’t an option. Yes, school is hard for kids with additional needs (I have one at home) but it’s nonnegotiable.

People aren’t saying it’s acceptable so much as what do you imagine his choices were. Op needs to think about what the end result would be. She is refusing to go in. Talking to her doesn’t work. She cant be physically manhandled in. So, what’s left?

im trying to think about what would have happened 50 years ago. Did so many kids refuse to go to school then or was it just not an option to say no?

Wow. Some ignorant attitudes on here.

He has come out to see her because he has managed to persuade her before when the TA, head and office staff couldn't
What on earth do you expect from them? The entire school staff outside the building trying to persuade one child to go to class??

Who would be a teacher or a TA now - your job is to coax in children. For goodness sake, some kids have always hated school, cried going in but this stopped at 6 and they went in, albeit reluctantly.

I feel sorry for anyone who parents a school refusing child but in every instance I’ve seen it’s been because parents give in to their kids and once they give an inch …….

I have had (and even still have at age 18) some very difficult days with getting my DD into school but I do it as it’s my job to do what’s right for her. I can’t expect the school to hold a line I’ve let go of

Your child is one of 30 kids that need and deserve that teachers time and attention.
You have two options- get your child into school yourself or allow the school to deal with her in a safe way.
Don't try and ruin this teachers career and life by implying what he did was inappropriate, and we wonder why teachers are leaving in droves

I imagine he did it because there were no alternatives other than calling you back to take her home because she was refusing to go in.

Yeah cos it's just that easy 😂 tell the teacher and it will all magically be solved!

Clearly most parents on this thread haven't experienced chronic school avoidance OP.

I sympathise. It's bloody hard for everyone involved. It's all well and good saying "team teacher" but please acknowledge the horrendous stress this situation puts on children and parents too.

He isn’t going to lose his job ffs. I can’t believe it’s taken this for you to say you will meet with him to come up with a plan. No one in a school has the time to sit and negotiate with a child to come into school. Schools are stretched enough already and parents need to step up instead of leaving everything to the schools to solve.

There need to be.

The problem is with the system, not the child with ASD who isn't being supported adequately and the answer certainly isn't for a man to lift a 9 yr old girl and physically force her into a classroom.

Either the teacher deals with the issue or if they cant, leaves mum to deal with it or alerts a support staff member, they don't pick the child up. That's not acceptable.

As I say I'm coming at this as a parent for a child where I have even there, if the child can be convinced in, moved in by me or supported by adequate staff to go in then they go home. Thank God our school are amazing ta dressing issu was a and we've never had to go home with him so far and he's P4

Then that's exactly what he should have done.

No, I don't think you seriously think the teacher's an abuser. However you were hinting at the abuse to get people on your side, probably because you thought it was an easy win against a male on MN.

You're acting like i asked for them all to come out and assist? I didn't.And what do you expect me to do myself? Stand there all day? take her home? I know school wouldn't be happy with either.It is a difficult situation for everyone, hence why a meeting with the teacher and possibly SENCO might be needed to discuss how to deal with it away from a busy morning with an upset child in the mix.

As it's a relatively recent thing, has anything changed at school? Mean words from another child or struggling in lessons, that kind of thing?

Did you have much experience with ASD kids? Did just "taking them by the hand and telling them to stay" work for your pupils? It wouldn't have worked in the specialist ASD school that I worked in.
OP, if your DD has good verbal skills, sit her down and ask her what would work better for her. With our ASD DD she expressed that it was the noise in the playground, the bells and the chatter as kids settled in for the day that caused her sensory issues and anxiety. We agreed with school that she would go in 10 mins earlier, be able to wear her headphones and help to set up the classroom, eg putting paper on desks or sharpening the pencils. It worked well.

Even if it was a woman I’d be weird with this, plus if the kids see it it will be a thing in the class. I’d talk to him and let him know you’d rather nobody lifted her

But then it's also possible that a parent would still complain. I can see how teachers seemingly can't win in this situation.

If OP would prefer for her child to be sent home than be carried into school then I'd just make that clear to school.

I have different thoughts. I get teachers shouldn’t really be lifting students but sometimes it is needed, if they are injured etc. He couldn’t leave your daughter outside alone as that wasn’t safe and he couldn’t leave the rest of the class inside without him for a long time so he needed to do something.

Sometimes firemen lifts are needed - imagine if there was actually a fire. So we can’t teach girls that it’s never acceptable for someone to lift them up.

I know this is not politically correct to say but agree with this, there are another 25+ children having their teaching time affected because one does not want to go in.

If you can’t. control her behaviour what makes you and authorities think that a teacher with so many additional students should be dealing with it all the bloody time?

Ah, it kind of read a little that way. But totally understand why you might want to check and see if the behaviour is normal or not (at the end of the day it is your child)! I hope you can have a meeting and get some resolution to get your child into school more easily. Is there a breakfast club or similar? A more informal pre classroom environment might help her at drop offs? It helped my DS!

Some children sniffled. Which other children stared at. Those that were sniffling usually had parents who were doing the same.
This was first day at school only episodes. After that everyone was expected to behave normally. And did.

Nobody went so far as to think they could refuse to go in. It never occurred to anyone it was possible.

But 50 years ago children often made their own way to school. Via the school bus or walked. There were not parents dropping children off. Nor collecting them. An important difference. Mums did not have a car then. Dads were at work. Even they might not have had a car either.

If it had happened, I would imagine they would have been held firmly by the hand and taken in. And that would have been that.

It is worth asking why you didn't pick her up and carry her into school? Then he wouldn't have had to do it.