Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

It sounds like the school are really doing their best, great school. I suppose it will calm down in time with both you and the school helping.
Wish you well and hope she finds her stride soon. Many other kids go through similar, friends young son did the tummy hurt thing whenever faced with something they were worried about too - he did get better.

Your issue here is that your DD has ‘chosen’ this teacher and this puts undue pressure on him. She has implied they have a special relationship and now he feels obliged to coax her in. This has led to him blurring boundaries.

This was a mistake from the school. She should not have had this power - all teachers should be assumed to be equally competent and she should have gone where the dice fell.

He is now spending a disproportionate amount of time on her and he should have walked away the first time she refused to come in. He is actually going to make the situation worse in the long term as she gets more and more power.

For what it’s worth (teacher here), he shouldn’t have touched her. There may be exceptions around physical restraint in case of violence or prearranged strategies, but ‘hands off’ should be the rule for teachers and students. I assume his youth and enthusiasm got in the way and his feeling he could ‘solve’ this because of their special relationship.

See it for what it was (a misjudgment), speak to him about not repeating it and arrange a way forward with the SENCO which doesn’t put the onus on one lone class teacher.

The poor teacher (who sounds wonderful by the way). You didn’t see him groping her or causing her distress but still want to request a meeting with the school?!?!?? For what? To allude that the teacher did something (in public) that could have caused your daughter what exactly? Do you think he sexually harmed her by picking her up? Or what? He achieved something that you couldn’t do in a possible fun way and you still want to complain! Ridiculous

Is it functioning to force a child in such a way that the wheels keep turning but they grow into an adult who can't function in society due to their mental health? Is that functioning really? Or kicking the can down the road?

If she found it humiliating maybe she will walk to class in future. You need to find out why she doesn’t want to go in, is there a reason or just because she’s decided she doesn’t want to.

Autism is not an excuse to get out of things you don’t like. Obviously kids who have a more severe presentation will need carefully selected settings, but if she’s ok for mainstream school, and interacts ok, she’s ok.

it sounds like you’re ascribing every element of her behaviour to autism, forgetting that actually most kids would do what yours is if they could get away with it - late nights, school refusal…you’re her parent - parent. You’re doing her no favours whatsoever at the moment where she’s clearly doing as she wants. The autism makes it even more important to teach boundaries and consequences. I work with someone whose ASD child has barely attended school in 3 years. When he does go he’s horrendously behaved when he doesn’t get his own way. Take control now before she self limits her potential.

I pick my child up and lift him through doorways, it's very close to the point where I will.no.lonher be able to and what then? Physically moving them only works for so long, you need to find away to address the root cause and to have her attend willingly because they get too big and too volatile and the picking up and moving becomes no longer feasible.

#teamteacher. Children are getting away with too much nowadays all under the heading "sen" instead of bloody awkward teenager hormones. The focus needs to go back to children doing as they were told not what they feel like doing.

No. You either think a male teacher is appropriate, or you don’t. You have no right to put any more doubt about his intentions than you would a female teacher.

What are your qualificantions? Your understanding of autism? Because you aren't talking about the reality for these children. They aren't 'using autism as an excuse to get out of something they don't want to do.

Paradoxically my son school refuses but desperately wants to learn (and goes every single day whatever it takes before anyone starts telling me how to get him in, I get him in) because he wants to learn but finds taking part in some of his class very difficult and until this year found explaining that to us impossible. Thankfully the SEN lead observes kids in class, helps identify sticking points, offers little support that add up to a big difference. But it's so often an inability to attend something they desparately do want to attend but can't.

Also, what if the female teacher in your scenario is a lesbian?

So surprised by the responses and would be so interested to know how old everyone's children are that are okay with their children being carried in. Mine are all little so perhaps this was more of a thing that happened regularly in previous years? I genuinely didn't think it would be legal to do that so I have learnt something today.

Thanks again, you're obviously bringing a great deal of experience to your judgement of the nuances of this situation. I can now see that it's not as black and white as I made it out to be, but I still maintain that many of the responses on this thread (not yours) are unreasonably hyperbolic.

The child in question is 9. With an ASD diagnosis. Do you not believe in ASD? Can you explain how you would handle this as a parent? In detail.

Its a huge and complex subject. A lot of parenting is extremely dull and repetative, so people don't want to do it. They keep their fingers crossed that school will do the job.

Absolutely not. A teacher - esp male - should not be picking up and carrying any child. I’m shocked he would.

If you don't want him to carry her in OP then I think you need to remove her from this school. You need to decide whether you're going to enforce an education on her (one of the biggest privledges a country can offer) or whether it's not that important to you or your dd. Until you're clear about it your dd won't be either and it's going to fuel the anxiety and avoidance. It's your's and your dd's responsibility to engage with school. There's only so much one teacher and 29 pupils can and should have to tolerate and sacrifice.

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Once again, it's nothing to do with me having a concern around any sort of sexual assault/abuse sort of 'intentions' on his part.
I just don't want my daughters to grow up thinking that it is okay for anyone (especially males) to dominate them physically against their will, even if done in jest.
IF that is what was happening then I will be asking to meet with HIM and possibly the SENCO (requesting a meeting with school does not automatically mean making a complaint fgs!) so that better ways of managing it for us all can be discussed.

IF DD says 'no, it was funny, I didn't mind him doing it, it was a game etc' then that's that, matter closed.Although if it becomes a pattern I agree that's not ideal and other methods should probably still be discussed.

And a couple more points whilst i'm still here 1) I left because the teacher ASKED me to leave! Not because I wanted to escape and just get on with my day and leave him to deal with it, as some are implying.I was working with him to try and encourage her, as i usually do.

2. This was outdoors, outside the door into the office reception- not the classroom.I do not have access to go into the classroom or anywhere near it.

3. I could not pick her up and lift her into school myself as I also had my baby in a carseat, and was not able to be parked near enough to the entrance to leave them in the car.Also, even we as her parents try not to do that now she is older anyway.Like others have said it is not a sustainable solution.

Surprised by responses here. In all child safeguarding training I’ve ever had it’s clear you should not touch a child unless you need to provide aid or support. I’ve never seen a teacher outside of nursery or specialist settings with distinct special needs actually carry a child. At nine I would expect it to be humiliating to be carried by the teacher and it removes her autonomy when she is clearly not wanting to go into school. I would not be ok with this at all. Fair enough he has 30 other kids to teach, he either gets another member of staff to speak to her or gets OP to take her home. I see I’m in the minority, but I think a teacher - of any gender - physically carrying a 9 year old into school against their will is not right at all.

What would you have liked to happen? I'm not being goady, but you need to have solutions to this.

Yes, that's true, although it sounds like OP and the school are working very hard on that already.

Exactly!

Absolutely but a teacher picking a child up and forcing them into a classroom risks derailing that process entirely.

Those saying she shouldn't be annoyed because it was a male teacher if she'd be happy if a woman did it...

This misses some of the point, I've been trying to work out why I so strongly feel a man shouldn't pick up a 9 year old girl and I realsies it's this.

Most female teachers would lack the strength to pick up a 9 year old girl. The reason a male teacher has done it is because he can. That's alarming and arrogant and totally lacking in any sense of a child's personal space.

He picked her up because he's strong enough to physically impose his will on a little girl. Those who think that's a lesson a child should learn have their own internal issues to be unpacking b

I've heard of a male teacher lifting up a year 4 girl during a teachers v children netball game not long ago, so that she could score the final goal, presumably in front of lots of witnesses. Should he be fearing for his job?

And I agree with @baftaagain in that although children must be protected from physical violence, the pendulum has indeed swung much too far in favour of children who know they are untouchable. (I was at primary school in the 80s; no corporal punishment, but we were often yanked by the arm or hand. I'm not saying it should go that far, but if a teacher needs to carry a child, which is no mean feat, so be it.)