Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

So, a no then?

Thankfully the law disagrees with you.

Absolutely a child self harming through stress is NOTA GETTING AN EDUCATION so the school is failing if that's the state they leave a child in.

Provisions which look small to the outside and to idiots who yell 'just shove them in the door and force them' stop kids form ending ups elf harming in an office
I've seen a child go from self harming alone in an office to thriving and taking part in every aspect of the school day through very small adaptations daily leading to. Child o feels safe at school.

A friend whose daughter school refused went to a special school , was well looked after, plenty of 1:1, pandered to, etc etc and she still refused to go there.

She’s the one on benefits drinking buzzballs in the park, but she’s neurodiverse so it’s apparently ok 🤷‍♀️

For some kids it’s a mental health issue, for others they just don’t go to school and this is where strong parenting comes in

no one is saying the won’t educate disabled children but those that are refusing to be taught (might be related to a disability or it might not). The reason being is that the challenge is how as the amount of time and resources that needs to go into making it happen is not necessarily feesible. Obviously this is not great and not where we want to be as a society but it is very difficult.

OP you need to decide how you think these teachers should get your daughter into school. Staff cannot stand outside all day waiting for your DD to go in on her own steam if she is not going to. I have been on the side of both as a SEND ta and a parent of a child who has SEN and will refuse to go to school. You need to decide what it is you are having an issue with and assist the school in getting her in. It seems like you feel that her being carried in is not the right thing but you also don’t seem happy it’s a male teacher because it’s not appropriate but also would not like a female teacher to do so. Help the school instead and give them ideas or ask to take her in yourself? He asked you to leave because parents hanging around make things so much harder for those of us trying to get kids in so we can teach them and the other pupils in their class.

What is your point? I didnt mention epilepsy but i presume this is being catagorised with SEN. If a school doesnt have the funding or the staff to deal with something then they dont have it. If that means someone with epilepsy is missing out on education then that is the case. The majority must come first.

The money/funding is running out.

pp is absolutely saying that.

i totally understand you’re thinking on this and hope that when you speak to her later she was ok with it. Just sending a hug as you’ve had a bit of a bashing from some. It’s exhausting having these issues which no doubt consume your thoughts throughout the day. All the best x

Kids could skive off school much easier years ago. And it was easier to go on the dole / income support and get a council flat. Mental health support was slashed during austerity so all the support that existed at the turn of the century was pretty much removed / closed down.

These kids have always existed but the pressure is higher these days. I know parents who were so scared of a fine that they removed their teen child from school and they didn't get an education, the pressure is counterproductive in many cases. Carrying a child into school doesn't help anyone.

For now. Whilst the money is/was there it was easier to make these laws. Whats the point in a law no one can afford to enact?

Not had the school refusal issue but staff can and do lift my son and they will use a 2 person restraint when needed (some weeks needed a lot)
My son is autistic with severe combined adhd and when unregulated they need to move him and contain him for safety
Sometimes that involved the headteacher having to contain him in an empty room while waiting on me to get to them because the unit staff are needed by the other SEN children before the whole room ends up unregulated
You need a meeting with the senco to come up with a plan of action in the morning.
A member of staff who can be there to help the transition into class, a TA, the senco or headteacher themselves as of course the teacher cannot be absent from class for long periods to carols one child

They didn't need to be. You knew you had to go to school!

Having spent too much time on this thread & need to get back to work my final thought is simply cotton wool. Society nowadays is entrenched in it where children & acceptable discipline is concerned. I rest my case.

Did she always go to a special school, be well looked after and have plenty of 1:1?

Maybe it was a parenting issue, who knows but it's also possible that the outcome would be different if she had received specialist help earlier. For some, it just comes too late (if at all) and the damage is done.

I don't think it was appropriate, no. He could have called you back or asked for some other staff members to assist. Having worked with children and young people, I wouldn't do anything to them physically if I was alone.

Except not everyone did go to school.

' I really hope all the people yelling 'asd is bad parenting, force them in the door and have done with it, can't learn in the way every other child learns their life is forfeit' are elderly because eventually this ableist nonsense should die out.

I have a 22 year old autistic niece, when she was at primary school she attended mainstream, had a 1-1 TA and a taxi service to and from school

I have a friend with an 18 year old autistic son who attended specialist schools from P1 onwards.

In varying ways these children are more or less on a par with my son's care needs and now it's a case of drop of them off by any means possible while the narrative in the community is that you're making it up anyway because you can't be bothered to parent.

The provision has been hacked apart, meanwhile medical advanced mean children are literally alive who would have died from prematurity, intractable seizures, malnutrition associated illness, genetic conditions for which we now have treatment and survival to adulthood etc etc. so the need for services is greater than ever.

But sure. We're all just trying to be difficult

Good luck to any government that proposes law changes to not educate disabled children as well as also having to remove discrimination laws.

Especially if they believe disabled children will magically disappear and not simply just cost a fortune in social care instead.

Once you had left, surely it would be a major safeguarding issue to leave her outside, and he had a class to teach. So the options were pretty limited.

OP, I agree with you but I also think this is a difficult situation where compromise is called for rather than absolute positions on anything.

What I mean by that is this... I don't think he should have carried your DD into class (and I'm sure someone will make him aware of this, so I wouldn't press the point unless you have other concerns), but where does that then leave the school and you as parent? On this particular day, it may have been the 'least worst' solution, as it were?

The school don't have staff to hang around outside and cajole your child into school. I'm assuming you're not working at the moment (you mention a baby) but apologies if that's incorrect. You have a younger child to get to school and a baby so clearly it's not ideal for you and your family if you're spending hours outside with your DD trying to convince her to go into school. Because she can't be left alone, she needs a responsible adult with her. And it's not good for your DD if you have to take her home so she can't access her education and potentially becomes more set in her school refusal.

Personally (and I appreciate this is a difficult situation and your DD has additional needs which need to be factored into any response to her behaviour), I think the onus is on you as the parent to lead her into the classroom and leave her there, even if you have to use physical contact to achieve this. I'd think of ways that this could be made less traumatic... can you give her a chocolate button at the school gate or can she take a fidget toy or other comfort object with her? Could you agree that she can go in early and sit and read or draw in the corner before the other children come in, and then join the class when she's ready?

Maybe he offered her a fireman's lift as a fun way to get her in?

Maybe you should put some manners on your kid then.
I had very laid back parents but wouldn’t dare try this. You’re ridiculous for entertaining it.

Monty36

But 50 years ago children often made their own way to school. Via the school bus or walked. There were not parents dropping children off. Nor collecting them. An important difference. Mums did not have a car then. Dads were at work. Even they might not have had a car either.
If it had happened, I would imagine they would have been held firmly by the hand and taken in. And that would have been that.

Sadly I’d think fifty years ago they’d have given the child a smack or threatened them. The ‘not in my time’ people who say their kids behaved and walked nicely into school forget there was a veil of fear over most kids’ heads

I think it’s fine; you need to stop hanging around at school in the mornings. Do a drop off at the classroom door and go.
He’s got the right approach - it’s non negotiable and there’s no choice in going or not.

People can't see what doesn't exist.