Teacher carrying 9yo into school.

[ChitterChatter1987]

My eldest daughter (Year 5) is becoming really tricky to get into school some days, particularly Mondays.
She has a male teacher for the first time this year, who she seems to get on well with and speaks positively about.She had specifically asked to have him despite often generally being abit more fearful of males than females.He is popular with kids and parents and is fairly young and laid back, quite playful and enthusiastic in his approach.

A couple of times he has come out when we have had issues getting her in recently and has verbally managed to persuade DD to go in by giving an incentive etc which has worked well, but today despite him trying this and offering good solutions to her worries, she just would not go in, and went outside the office reception and sat down refusing to move.
He suggested out of earshot for me to go as maybe me being there was making her more reluctant, which i agree was probably true as maybe then she thinks she might be able to come home.

I walked off up the path and left him negotiating with her outside as he had advised, however then looked back and saw him fireman carrying her into the building.
Now I totally get it's a hard sitiation knowing how to get her in,and appreciate he has a class to teach, so can't stand outside negotiating with her for ages, and there is a possibility she was okay with him lifting her in and it was a fun game (although I would be surprised as she isn't really a tactile child with anyone other than me and sometimes her dad and sister) If someone had done that with my 5yo, unless she was kicking and screaming in upset, I probably wouldn't think much of it tbh, but with her being older on the cusp of puberty, him being male, and also her having ASD and not liking physical touch, it just feels like it might be quite humiliating for her and abit forceful and inappropriate, despite it being meant as a playful gesture to get her to go in.
We always try to teach her body autonomy, that nobody should touch her including hugs etc without her wanting them to, so i just worry that this is going against that, especially with him being an adult male.
She is quite a young 9.5, and fairly small for her age, so not sure he would have done it otherwise, but despite that she is still the age she is.

My plan is I will speak to her later and see if she was okay with it or not, and if not ask for a meeting with school, asking them to not do it again and discussing alternative methods to get her into school.

What are others thoughts on this practice? If anyone else has experienced something similar, or has any ideas of alternative ways to get her into school i would be grateful for your input!

he has a class to teach! he cannot spend ages cajoling her in.....

Salmonoftheseas

Maybe you should put some manners on your kid then.
I had very laid back parents but wouldn’t dare try this. You’re ridiculous for entertaining it.

I think we posted at the same time, the reason most people wouldn’t have tried it as children themselves was they were actually scared of repercussions. I don’t think parenting can be compared now to back then

I also thought this was possible. You don’t know the entire context

You really dont get it do you?

I absolutely dont expect them to reverse any laws. As you say - No one will vote for them.

But if there is no money to offer the service to help these disabled children then the law is useless. It wont be society or governments making the choice, it will be basic mathematics.

But it sounds like this is in a specialist unit with specialist training? My friend works in a school like that and she's had years of safe restraint etc training. The average school teacher in a mainstream school shouldn't be picking kids up like that

This is the sort of thing that makes good teachers leave the profession.

It's funny how they almost always seem to find money when they want to.

All this " getting them in" and " pulling them out", something is going very wrong.

Teachers in mainstream settings can receive training for all sorts if necessary. My son is in mainstream and his teacher and TA's have received training in several areas so he can attend safely.

The child in the op was picked up by her class teacher, if there has been safe restraint training etc a plan would be in place. My son's teachers and TA have had seizure management training so I absolutely know what you mean but it isn't the same as a random teacher picking. Child up with no prior agreement having deliberately sent the mum away

Past tense unfortunately. The pot is empty as lots of parents are finding out. Its getting more and more difficult to access specialist help.

This is about schools. Then we can move onto healthcare. Then benefits. Then councils. Then defence spending and on and on.

Yes, I think a lot of children conformed in fear because the alternative was physical abuse. The threat of being beaten would make most children conform unless they really, really couldn't. And then those children would be physically abused, and the other children would see this and the threat would be reinforced.

Even when I was at school, teachers routinely enforced order through a combination of sarcasm, humiliation, shouting and low level physical abuse. Things like dragging small children by the arm and throwing objects at children who weren't listening or were being 'dim'. Name calling by teachers was common. Most children did as they were told, and the ones who didn't (and were often publicly punished) were, looking back, often the ones who actually couldn't for whatever reason and needed help.

I'm sure many people will disagree, but I think a lot of adults are still suffering from having been through this style of education and having had their needs so comprehensively disregarded. And it's got worse for today's children in many ways due to school funding cuts, the increased demands of the curriculum, the increased pressures of modern life and (at secondary and some primaries) increased reliance on 'zero tolerance' disciplinary policies that don't effectively distinguish between 'won't' and 'can't'.

You'd think we could do better for kids today than we did in the past, but schools are a lot way off being able to meet children's needs effectively imo and, until they can, parents and teachers are just muddling through as best they can in many cases.

Indeed. I am a long, long way from being a harumphing, Daily Mail-reading, health-and-safety-gone-mad-bring-back-the-cane type, but some of the replies on here really do make me think we've gone soft. When a teacher picking up a small recalcitrant child, in full view of other adults, when it was either that or keep the kids who had got into class waiting for god knows how long, to no obvious ill effect, is met with 'Ooh safeguarding! Bodily autonomy! His career could be finished! He should fill in a form! Hugely inappropriate! She might be a bit uncomfortable! Did she consent?! Has he been on a course to learn how to pick up a small child?!'...it's like we've lost all sense of perspective.

I was responding more generally to your point that the training only happens in specialist schools. I agree that he very likely doesn't have the required training and it is something that needs a discussion.

This is exactly it! Children even having needs or mental health requirements was just disregarded, and now we complain about the people on benefits for mental health conditions. Created by their childhoods.

It's not ideal, but perhaps a lapse of judgement on his part. Maybe he gave her 3 options and that 1 was a joke 1 and she picked it. If she wasn't upset then presumably she's taking it as a rough and tumble type of play, but i can see your concern, inappropriate

I think you do need to speak to him and the school about it because intent aside it’s not a strategy that is appropriate or going to help longer term. It might start a whole new set of issues for your daughter.

I think this is a pretty fair point. If she's becoming more and more reluctant to go to class, it's such a difficult situation but not really one to dump on the school surely?

Team Teacher, he has a whole class that not only needs but deserves his attention. Does the child have an adult that can carry her in to where she is supposed to be? I pity the children who are not getting their allotted teacher time.

on a few occasions the teacher (female) has had to do this to my 9yo son. I have no problem with it- he either walks into school himself or the teacher will physically bring him in to school. Other teachers have tried to stand and verbally reason with him and to cajole him in- this just prolongs the upset. Best thing to do is get him into the classroom and he settles straight away!

I suppose ( pardon the pun) it's about balance. The fear tactics of the past were unkind but things functioned to a great extent. The pendulum has moved very far in the other direction.
I'm sorry this child is struggling but the other 29 were also due attention.

It’s probably different because my DD was 4 but she went through an incredibly difficult patch of resisting going into the classroom in reception. She would run around the playground, drop to the ground and scream, kick me etc. The teachers did indeed have to carry her inside on more than one occasion. She was absolutely fine once through the door and thankfully outgrew it.

This teacher has a class to teach, he can’t stand there chatting to her all day to persuade her to come inside. How was she once inside? If ok, I wouldn’t even question his tactic.

What is your suggestion for another method to use that doesn’t impact the other 29 children!
also why did you leave before she was in school?! You need to stay and give up your time if necessary!

If your child has a diagnosis of ASD, you should be liaising with the SENCO about an EHCP/reasonable adjustments. Is your daughter ok in mainstream school?

School avoidance is not a habit, as it has been mentioned here. It's communication and a sign that your child might be struggling with regulation or something else.

Are you working with an OT or similar?

This is a tough one. Ive said YANBU unreasonable because this would also make me feel extremely uneasy. I've seen someone at a football class manhandle my DC and I told them to stop it at once.

However, I do understand maybe there was no other option? You need to take control of the situation yourself if you arent happy with what the teacher did.

I'd complain personally, in a way that says "look I know you were trying to help but that crossed a line" to the teacher. However, as others have said that means it is up to you to get her into school.