To refuse to let the kids go their own christening?

[ProudMamaBear92]

So long story short I’m not religious but from a Christian background. DH is not from UK but is Christian orthodox family. Though rarely ever goes to church nor lives a devout life 😑.

he wants to christen the kids, I’d rather not but said if it’s important to him he can, I’ll go along with it. He can organise it as it’s something he wants, but my ONLY stipulation is no undressing and submersion of the kids.

We went to a nephews christening and the poor boy was publicly stripped naked and dunked in a barrel. I found it horrifying to watch and the child was inconsolable for a long while after. I disagree with it massively, it feels humiliating and a bit abusive to me.

Next year a cousin of DH is getting married abroad and the whole huge family is going. BIL and DH want to christen all the kids together, we have two they have two. Sure, makes sense. Bride is fine with us piggybacking her wedding week I did check with her.

They are insisting on orthodox ceremony, fine, but I’m insisting the priest mustn’t strip and dunk my kids.

They said maybe he will?! I’m repeating myself with this and just kind of getting shrugged off. There’s a language barrier also to work around and I feel I’m left out of the conversations ALOT. DH will never disagree with his brother, or his dad. History has proven it.

If they don’t take my wishes seriously, AIBUto just refuse to let the kids go full stop? Take the passports and refuse to let them leave the UK? Or just cause a massive scene at the christening?? What do I do??

Threads like that remind me of how much hidden xenophobia exists in this country and on this site. You scratch the surface, and there it is - suspicion and derision of things that are different or foreign.

As someone who grew up in a non-practising Orthodox family (so not particularly devout), I still find some of the statements here rather insulting.

On the subject - you don't have to baptise your kids if you don't want to. You can also talk to the priest to check what they will be wearing during the service. You can also find Orthodox churches in the UK that would do baptism in a way that is more in line with your views/feelings. But please don't view it as a weird sect - it is not!

FGS! 😭

Bearing in mind that we know next to nothing about what actually will happen, I have another word for this reaction but I’m not going to say it , out of politeness. 🤐 Let’s just say the children are not going to be ‘stripped naked’.

That is no difficulty at all. Unless there is agreement, it shouldn't happen. End of.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting this will not happen despite OP's account of what she has seen and been told, but regardless - are you acknowledging that if the stripping naked did happen to her kids, it would be inappropriate?

It's really easy to dismiss challenge like this. It's harder and more uncomfortable, but ultimately more valuable, to actually think about why people are making these criticisms, and how much merit they may have.

Criticism is valid when it comes out of knowledge, not ignorance.

They can also convert to your way of doing things as well 🙄

The point is that people need to be having these sorts of conversations in advance of marriage. If it’s a dealbreaker for either party then they’re not compatible.

That may have been the accepted practice in previous generations but how we look at safeguarding these days it should not be happening, it has been happening for hundreds of years is not a reason to keep doing it. If this is what it is then protect your children at all costs.

Why are you assuming those criticising are ignorant?

Ignoring everything else, your partner wants to put your DC through a religious ceremony, which they may or may not find deeply upsetting for a religion he doesn’t practice and has no intent on raising them in? All to make smiley pictures with his family?

He’s a fucking dickhead.

Not my experience as a Catholic. Can't remember my own Baptism but with my children and god daughter the baby was also anointed with the oil of Chrism on the forehead and chest, so clothes opened at the neck to give the priest access to the chest. Not stripped though.

I don't disagree. However some people might minimise this aspect of their culture/ religion and only enforce it more once married

It’s coming from knowledge of safeguarding though.

It’s the nakedness that is bothering people, not the immersion. I don’t think anyone (or many people) have said that immersion baptism is wrong per se.

And the nakedness has nothing to do with scripture, or an interpretation of of, it will just be a practice that has developed over time. Kind of makes sense of babies in terms of practicality (although I had always thought they wore a special nappy type thing?) but for older kids it’s clearly not appropriate.

For what it's worth, one of my godchildren (Catholic) wasn't baptised until they were a stroppy toddler and screamed their head off at the ceremony, but is now a well-adjusted teenager with no apparent lasting trauma. Anyway, if you can share whether this is Greek, Russian, or some other orthodox baptismal religion maybe other posters will have direct experience and can advise. Is there the option to find the right kind of church in the UK and have the ceremony here (the way you want it done) before the wedding trip, rather than waiting until you're in DH's homeland surrounded by his family and a non-English-speaking priest? Then you can all just attend the nephews' baptism as spectators.

Again, I am not sure whether the OP has actually discussed this specific baptism with anyone organising it.

Common practice is not to strip toddlers naked, as that wouldn't be appropriate; they usually wear a swimsuit. Not many are fully immersed either, as the tubs are often too small for that. They usually stand in a basin of sorts while the priest pours water on them, but that depends on the priest and the church and is up for discussion with parents.

The actual water process is super quick - even with babies, they are usually held by the parents/godparents until they are ready, then undressed very quickly for a quick triple dunk in warm water and straight into a towel. There is usually an option to avoid immersion even for babies.

Now, if the OP doesn't want to baptise her children, that is another discussion to be had with her husband.

Not a chance I would allow my children have such confusion inflicted upon them.
Probably give the wedding a miss.
Sounds like you married a weak dud too.

Exactly.

My husband is from a culture where many people choose to circumcise boys. Typically by a mohel despite not being Jewish. We spoke about this early on and the fact his family do not. There wouldn't be an us today otherwise.

Are you Christian OP? I couldn’t exactly tell. But what’s the plan here? To raise your children as Christian orthodox or not? You have 2 things here to think about - the form of baptism (which is a question of traditions - not theology - no baptism actually requires submersion in water or indeed anyone other than a fellow sincere Christian to perform it) and the issue of how you intend to raise your children. Surely smth that was discussed and decided before marriage? My mil forced my oh to get a Catholic dispensation to marry me - it required he & I to promise to raise our children as Catholic (not smth we agreed to at the time or we have done - the priest sensibly didn’t push the point as the result would’ve been simply for my husband to leave the church entirely and upset MIL). Did you have an orthodox wedding?

I would suggest you have the baptism in an Orthodox church in the UK. Both of my children were baptised orthodox and they kept their christening gown on and water was poured over their heads only. I'm assuming your husband is from a Balkan country who might go a bit old school.( In fact i don't understand how you would be baptised without a gown, it's a sacred garment and you are meant to keep it for life and be buried with it).

So you said that he can organise it. Then he piggybacks on his family organising it. Not a good sign. Is he generally lazy and reliant on other people organising stuff?

(That is quite apart from the whole dunking issue.)

Is not a bit of water on the head enough? Because that is how I was baptised, I was a tiny baby.
Catholic, if you want to know.

I had never heard of anyone being immersed in water till I came to UK. But this of stripping naked, this is the first time I hear about it!

To me the test would be -

Agree to a baptism in the UK, with covering as appropriate, private if possible. If DH will not agree to that, he is a hypocrite, and is only insisting on the baptism in his home country to please/show off in front of his family. He doesn't care about the religious aspect at all, if that's the case.

Only you know the answer to this OP, but it is what I would base my agreement on. If he refuses the ceremony here, I would refuse one abroad. I know that sounds intransigent, but at least here, you would both have input/control into what the priest does on the day. I think your views may be overridden in the home country in order to adhere to their customs.

That’s interesting (not germane to OP’s question, so apologies)
I would still picture christening robes for Catholics (and C of E/I) as pretty much jaw to floor lace and linen jobs, as though handed down by Queen Victoria!
My own, from 70 years ago admittedly, was not amenable to any chest access, though it must have been four or five feet long (and who knows why that dramatic style was pretty much de rigueur)
Maybe modern infants are baptised in far more practical wrappings 🙂