To refuse to let the kids go their own christening?

[ProudMamaBear92]

So long story short I’m not religious but from a Christian background. DH is not from UK but is Christian orthodox family. Though rarely ever goes to church nor lives a devout life 😑.

he wants to christen the kids, I’d rather not but said if it’s important to him he can, I’ll go along with it. He can organise it as it’s something he wants, but my ONLY stipulation is no undressing and submersion of the kids.

We went to a nephews christening and the poor boy was publicly stripped naked and dunked in a barrel. I found it horrifying to watch and the child was inconsolable for a long while after. I disagree with it massively, it feels humiliating and a bit abusive to me.

Next year a cousin of DH is getting married abroad and the whole huge family is going. BIL and DH want to christen all the kids together, we have two they have two. Sure, makes sense. Bride is fine with us piggybacking her wedding week I did check with her.

They are insisting on orthodox ceremony, fine, but I’m insisting the priest mustn’t strip and dunk my kids.

They said maybe he will?! I’m repeating myself with this and just kind of getting shrugged off. There’s a language barrier also to work around and I feel I’m left out of the conversations ALOT. DH will never disagree with his brother, or his dad. History has proven it.

If they don’t take my wishes seriously, AIBUto just refuse to let the kids go full stop? Take the passports and refuse to let them leave the UK? Or just cause a massive scene at the christening?? What do I do??

I think t's mistaken to stick the label abuse onto something you don't personally approve of.
Has anyone mentioned how old the child is when they're 'stripped naked'?

Orthodox background here as well. The naked triple immersion is done as standard for very small babies.

Family kids who were christened as young children didn’t do immersion at all and, while they were given fresh clothes to wear after their baptism those were just put on top of whatever they were wearing before. I think they were similar ages to your kids OP.

LOL at previous posters calling the Orthodox Church some sort of obscure sect. But OP the priest should be willing to talk to you beforehand and you can make a plan together.

Child abuse? Sect? Humiliation? As someone who has attended hundreds of Orthodox christenings I’ve never witnessed any of that. People are so quick to make judgments on things they have no idea about! What I have seen is beautiful family celebrations, witnessing a child’s entry into Orthodoxy.

@ProudMamaBear92 I would educate yourself on how it’s really done; speak to the priest (take someone you trust if language is a barrier) and get some facts and clarity. Tell them how you feel and they’ll find a way to make it work.
Babies are usually naked, older children and adults are usually in shorts and t-shirt/ a dress or something age appropriate.
Nakedness is not the important part of a christening.
Find out what it will actually entail from the actual church so you know it’s accurate and then if you still aren’t comfortable then just tell your husband you’re not allowing it.

It would be wrong to label something abusive solely because one doesn't personally approve of it. But if it meets accepted definitions of abuse, irrespective of anyone's personal opinion, why should anyone care if that label offends someone?

it's an important tradition for many and being overly critical will be counterproductive.

Counterproductive ... to family relationships I presume you mean. Having your children being forced into an archaic ritual against your wishes isn't great for family relationships either!

Why do his wishes come above yours?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but if you didn’t have children with a nutter, this wouldn’t be an issue. Surely you discussed how you’d raise children etc before you decided it was a good idea to do together?

Baptism is a load of shit anyway (in my opinion) but add the nudity and the upset to the child, and the fact that it’s against your wishes and it’s totally fucked up. The fact that you’re even having to think about hiding passports, because your wishes are being ignored does not bode well for the future

Fine, when the child is old enough to consent. Before that, hell no.

But not to the sobbing children at the heart of the ceremony.

Our kids are all christened but no stripping and immersion! (Immersion is fine if kids are happy to, to be clear and I’ve been to adult baptisms in other Christian faiths)

I’d text him ‘I’m getting no sense of support for your kids regarding this christening not being an upsetting stressful situation for them, it feels like you and your family against me with your priorities being traditions and my priority being our children. At this point the dc and I are not going at all, I didn’t sign up for this struggle and I didn’t sign up at all to have you bullying me and not thinking about our children.’

Get them christened first.

Abusive?
Please get a grip.

And to the person telling you to report the other baptism to social services - are you serious????? The mind boggles.

Also, to those suggesting a baptism in a different church, please read up a little on genuine doctrinal differences among Christian denominations.

I f you hadn't already begun to suspect it, it should become clear that this thread is an open invitation to all the ignorant anti-Christians of Mumsnet to come and spew their bilge.

A factual, reasonable post like yours will not quiet the shrill yelping of the pitchfork mob.

Well, that should help to encourage a meaningful, intellectually-enriching exchange of different views.

It used to be standard in the Orthodox Church. In my home country, priests don't do this anymore in the cities but in the rural areas they still do sometimes. Unfortunately, you are sort of at the mercy of the priest. If you pick one that insists on doing it that way, you have to accept it. So by piggybacking on someone else's christening, you are losing the element of choice on this.

I wouldn't personally do it.

Eastern orthodox traditions do it in a number of countries.
I'd be kicking up a fuss OP - someone has to kick back against ridiculous religious practices.

“Normal” isn’t necessarily good.

It is also entirely unnecessary.

I would call anyone that wants to strip children naked a sect personally.

Even if ‘ortodox christians’ don’t like it, this IS abuse and hell, no, I’d not let anyone strip my kids naked. ffs

I was thinking this - I guess you could put a stop to this by finding an Orthodox Church in the UK that would baptise them in a ceremony that doesn’t involve stripping the children naked.

I can totally see why you might dip a baby in water wearing something minimal but with older children it’s a bit different and not appropriate - especially not stripping them naked.

If you get them baptised already then they can’t do it again.

@ProudMamaBear92 you said priest in your post so I’m assuming Catholic. My family our devout Catholics and no children have ever been stripped for a baptism.

You should question which religion they are being Christened into and then research that ceremony procedure. Don’t just be told to do this, do that, if you are not comfortable don’t do it, but pull the plug before you reach the actual day.

Given that it's child abuse verging on paedophilia I'd say not taking them or allowing your husband to do so would be the only option as their mother?
How on earth could you stay married to a man that would encourage another man to strip your child naked and forcibly push them underwater whilst other people gathered to watch their humiliation? Just because you call it a 'christening' it doesn't change what they are doing.
Teach your children that their bodies are their own and are private, not objects to be used in the depraved rituals of adults.

Baptism by immersion is also practised in some Catholic Churches: I’ve been to one. The church was warm, the baby was very young, there was no trauma at all. In fact the symbolism was very beautiful.

However, it’s a different matter for older children and I can see that nudity and full immersion might be an uncomfortable and unpleasant experience. And it’s pretty meaningless if neither parent is planning to raise the children in the faith.

You need to talk to your DH OP! And maybe an orthodox priest over here, too, before it all gets too imminent and pressurised.

This thread is absurd. Abuse? Millions of people across Eastern Europe and the Middle East and Africa are all abusive? Not to mention Protestant groups who practise baptism by immersion. I‘m not even a Christian of any stripe and this is ridiculously over the top.

the real issue is that being performed abroad you won’t be able to speak to the priest to make proper arrangements. It does not have to involve stripping the child or doing it in front of the entire congregation. No you can’t just do Anglican baptism, the Orthodox don’t accept it as valid.

Haven’t RTFT but calling baptism “depraved paedophilia” is bonkers.

And all those smugly saying they didn’t baptise their children because they wanted them to decide for themselves — you decided for them just as much as parents who baptised their children. That’s fine, that’s your right. But you chose just the same.

Fucking weirdos.

You need to make sure you have the contact details of the priest and communicate with him directly. You can do it by email via google translate. Otherwise you are going to get railroaded and lose control very quickly.

Also prepare yourself mentally to intervene on the day if it starts happening like that.