To refuse to let the kids go their own christening?

[ProudMamaBear92]

So long story short I’m not religious but from a Christian background. DH is not from UK but is Christian orthodox family. Though rarely ever goes to church nor lives a devout life 😑.

he wants to christen the kids, I’d rather not but said if it’s important to him he can, I’ll go along with it. He can organise it as it’s something he wants, but my ONLY stipulation is no undressing and submersion of the kids.

We went to a nephews christening and the poor boy was publicly stripped naked and dunked in a barrel. I found it horrifying to watch and the child was inconsolable for a long while after. I disagree with it massively, it feels humiliating and a bit abusive to me.

Next year a cousin of DH is getting married abroad and the whole huge family is going. BIL and DH want to christen all the kids together, we have two they have two. Sure, makes sense. Bride is fine with us piggybacking her wedding week I did check with her.

They are insisting on orthodox ceremony, fine, but I’m insisting the priest mustn’t strip and dunk my kids.

They said maybe he will?! I’m repeating myself with this and just kind of getting shrugged off. There’s a language barrier also to work around and I feel I’m left out of the conversations ALOT. DH will never disagree with his brother, or his dad. History has proven it.

If they don’t take my wishes seriously, AIBUto just refuse to let the kids go full stop? Take the passports and refuse to let them leave the UK? Or just cause a massive scene at the christening?? What do I do??

I googled:

Orthodox Baptism of Adults and Older Children

• Modesty and Attire: Adults and older children are not expected to stand naked in church. They typically wear a plain white one-piece swimsuit, swim trunks, or a simple garment (such as a white cotton tunic or robe) provided or recommended by the parish.

Just because ‘millions of people’ do it, doesn’t make it right. This applies to a lot of things.

This.

Don't allow them to go. Hide their passports and make it clear to your dh this would be a marriage ending issue.

He sounds completely spineless. He doesn't believe in this nonsense himself but is willing to allow his children to be put through this ordeal because it's easier than telling him family no.

Getting kids ir anyone naked for baptisms is not done in Catholic or Protestant/Anglican ( denominations like CoE so any orthodox priest practising in England will be used to not to doing that since it's not culturally the norm in England (or the west in general). This situation is way more difficult for you to control if it happens joint with the brother's kids and abroad. Tell DH he has to do it in an orthodox church in England. Go along to the preparatory meeting, speak to the priest directly who won't go against your wishes especially if you are also present on the day.

If you're talking about taking their passports that does sound like you don't trust DH wouldn't do something behind your back? I think you need to look seriously about communication between you two if that's the case and work on that.

Someone on a thread here told me yesterday that a husband being unfaithful and then lying about it was abusive. And when I questioned that they said domestic abuse charities would define it as such per their definitions.

I'm not sure there are official or accepted definitions for these things anymore, because people are so tempted to abuse (excuse the pun) the labels.

I totally disagree with you. The poster said a child was inconsolable after this experience. It's absolutely not on!
You can be baptised with a simple cross marked on the forehead fgs.
I personally believe in God but religion is just nuts

I would not allow this if it were my dd. She would have been inconsolable. And probably made her scared of water for life. Swimming is an important life skill.

Your dc aren’t from the community, haven’t been brought up to know about this type of baptism and won’t understand the context. And context is everything. And they are both too old and too young for this to happen.

I would agree to having a baptism in the uk only. Someone upthread mentioned sprinkling water as a less preferred method. And agree with your dh that once your dc are 18, they can decide if they want to be immersed.

I'm am getting baptised into the Greek orthodox church in the coming months (possibly by my soon to be FIL who is a priest!), and I've said to my DP that there's no way I'll be removing any clothes at all.

Stand your ground. I refused to let my children be baptised into the Catholic church by my ex and his mother. They can choose to do so of their own free will once old enough to decide, but I wasn't forcing something that I don't believe in on them as a helpless baby. Turns out that neither wanted to.

I was thinking this - I guess you could put a stop to this by finding an Orthodox Church in the UK that would baptise* .... or you could just say NO.

This thread is absurd. Abuse? Millions of people across Eastern Europe and the Middle East and Africa are all abusive? Not to mention Protestant groups who practise baptism by immersion. I‘m not even a Christian of any stripe and this is ridiculously over the top.
Numbers of people doing wrong does not make it right. There are many primitive practices that were carried out by millions that we rightly deprecate now.

The issue is that OP rightly does not want this to happen and needs to find a way of preventing it.

Have I fallen into some sort of time warp where the enlightenment never happened?

Firstly, surely we needtoknow the age of the child before we judge this abusive?

Why? The OP's nephew was old enough to be upset about it. We also know OP's children will be 2 and 4 at the time.

If you had a child starting Reception this September and the teacher said, "by the way, as a rite of passage into school, we strip them all naked in front of the class and sing a song. We do it every year," would you think, "ah well if that's what they've always done, sure!" or would you have some reservations?

I dont get marrying an Eastern European orthodox Christian and expecting them not to want to bring up their child in that religion, at least partly.

People need to think more carefully when they have relationships with people from other cultures. If you find their practices disturbing, don't get with them

Kids get upset in a C of E baptism.

There are no cultural grounds that would lead me to consent to my child being publicly stripped and forced under water.

If we are to argue culturally sensitively, your husband has to accept that this applies to you too and respect the idea is offensive to you.

Yes, and kids get upset when you brush their teeth, so what? My point was that the kid in question was old enough to a) understand what was happening to him and b) not want that thing to happen. Yes, sometimes kids have to do things they don't want to do anyway (like teeth brushing), but when it comes to forcibly stripping them naked in front of strangers, I don't think that's really in the same category.

It's a baptism. As I said, I wouldn't marry someone from an Orthodox background and expect them not to want to raise their children as Orthodox. It's a bit like marrying a Catholic. Many of them are going to want a Catholic education for their children. I wouldn't marry an Irish man and then be surprised when he wants to baptise them in a Catholic Church the Catholic way. It's part of your compatibility with that partner.

Go speak to a priest here, watch a ceremony here as a family. Then have the ceremony done here if you're happy with it.

That way you won't have any pressure next year.

Right. Different issue from what we're talking about, though. Crying "cultural differences" doesn't automatically make something okay.

You have compromised saying that they can be christened, now he has to compromise too and agree to them not being stripped naked. I wohld arrange your own christening tbh.

I dont think it's particularly bad. It's a baby. Stripping a teenager im front of an audience would be problematic. A baby? Nah. Most won't see anything much at all.

Have you ever been to a bris?

Fair point, I understand there are different definitions. I guess what I'm saying is that I agree that "I don't personally like this, therefore it's abusive!" would be a ridiculous stance, but "I don't personally like this, and it's abusive" can be a perfectly legitimate one.

Of course it’s allowed in the UK. It happens in every Orthodox Church here.

As I said earlier, I think either is inappropriate, but yes I agree there is a big difference between a baby who won't know or remember and an older child who will. But in the case of OP's children, they definitely will.

No, I haven't been to a bris. Why?

I had no idea this was done in a christian church.
I too was stripped naked and immersed in a barrel as an adult many years ago but that was an initiation into an occult group I cannot name.
Looks like all these things have a lot in common.