To be really pissed off at a big arguement I’ve had with my husband about sexism

[budgiegirl]

DH and I are on our last evening of a lovely holiday. Bit we’ve had a huge argument this evening because he doesn’t seem to believe that sexism in the workplace still exists. He told me it doesn’t happen at my work (male boss, all others women), at his work (he’s the boss, all others are women), he doesn’t believe there’s a gender pay gap in this day and age. He said he doesn’t believe there’s sexism because it doesn’t affect him! When I tried to explain it doesn’t affect him because he’s a man, so doesn’t really notice it, he denied it.

Things got a bit heated, and when I tried to calm it down, say let’s put it behind us, and go out for dinner for our last night in this beautiful city we’re in, he refused, and told me I’m horrible because I always have to be right, I told him that’s because I am right, and have gone out on my own, because I’m not sitting in a hotel room for my last night here.

AIBU to be so annoyed that my DH doesn’t seem to think that sexism still exists?

YANBU, it's infuriating!

I hope you enjoyed the last night of your holiday regardless!

A lot of people find it hard to believe if they've never experienced it. Myopic but true. Do you have children? He might see it differently if you had a daughter who needed higher qualifications and a placid nature to be even considered alongside a mediocre man.

Just ask chat gpt to provide you with stats on the gender pay gap, sexual harassment, discrimination etc in workplaces. I’m sure it’ll give you some salient facts to furnish him with. He would have infuriated me too.

DH used to say shit like this. The sulking is because he knows you are right. I noticed that although my DH would argue back in the moment, his opinions did start to change a bit over time. So, he was listening even if he didn’t want to admit it.
It is so incredibly frustrating when it’s so bleeding obvious that sexism still exists and they just can’t see it. But then, I rarely see racism that’s right in front of my nose as someone who’s white but I listen to friends and accept that it is definitely there! It just seems so much easier to see discrimination when you’re the target.

Then why is he the boss and the others are women how did he get to the be the boss why not one of the other women. Of course it's different if he owns the company himself.

The same with your job why is there a male boss why aren't you the boss or one of the other women a boss?

He probably won't have an answer to that

So he’s insulted you because you wouldn’t acquiesce and agree with him. Isn’t that him enacting misogyny in the moment? If you were a man would he call you horrible for disagreeing and stating facts? Nope. Nope. Nope.

He’s an arse.

It sounds like he lacks empathy and imagination if his only frame of reference is what he experiences. You could show him some case law, there are plenty of workplace discrimination cases.

Does he know any women? Probably cant see or hear them.

Why are you “horrible” for thinking that there is sexism in the workplace (or anywhere else for that matter)?

If he doesn’t believe in the GPG does he think all those thousands of organisations are lying about theirs?

Is he a bit thick?

I feel a bit similar when someone insists that racism doesn't exist any more in this country. It can be very hard to see something that doesn't directly affect us. So frustrating.

Thats men for you I’m afraid. Selfish, totally lacking in empathy, bluntly rather lacking in intelligence or the ability to see anything they don’t want to. These are the half of the species that routinely dismisses the other half, routinely ‘forget’ or don’t notice the work that women do, and routinely write women out of history. They are why sexism and the patriarchy exists. I can only advise not to have kids with this one - it will only get worse.

It really depends how the discussion went. The fact are:
All employees (combined): Median pay was 12.3% less for women than for men, influenced heavily by a higher proportion of women working part-time hours
This is mainly due to women women taking years off to be with children and/or working PT.

The gap is very small amongst women and men in their 20s.

So the gap is not because bosses or cooperations think women should be paid less, but because they have less years of experience.

Frankly, if your argument was just about sexism, rather than having a deeper discussion about economical influence on pay, I get why your husband got frustrated with you.

"Got it; you shout me down when I tell you what it's like being a woman and tell me you know better than I do what happens in my own workplace, but there's no such thing as sexism". He's an idiot.

Your argument wasn't about sexism. It could have been about anything. You should both learn to agree to disagree on matters where your opinions differ.

It’s FAR more complicated than that.

And this is a good enough reason to get angry with her and call her horrible?

Are you male by any chance?

Absolutely.

You are both allowed to have different opinions. Why argue, is "being right" that important? From his perspective he thinks he's right. From your perspective you think you're right. So what. I don't believe there is a gender pay gap. We have minimum wage and posted salaries, everything above that is negotiated pay. There is an earnings gap between men and women, but that's nothing to do with men. Am I wrong as well?

Yes!

I was a female boss, but that would not prove there was no sexism where/when I worked.

Sexism is more complex.

In many countries with high equality indexes, a statistically significant gender pay gap no longer exists. It also disappears completely after you adjust for experience on the job and extra hours worked. The fact women take time off for children and are unwilling to work full time or overtime as frequently as men is not caused by work place sexism (aka male bosses) but the structural sexism of socialisation that grooms girls into carers and men into providers from birth. This is a extremely hard pattern to break as we all have unconscious bias that was created by socialisation.

You don’t believe there is a gender pay gap?

Its about historic systemic misogyny and sexism and it starts right at the beginning of careers.

Men are hired on the assumption they will be able to do the job.
Women are hired when they have proven they can.

Do a tiny bit of research and then come back and apologise.

Why say ‘it’s nothing to do with men?’ Like calling out inequality is about blaming men. It’s steeped into our societal bones. It started with men exerting power and control.

It’s a bit like race. There have been grounds made but racism is rife. As someone who is white I don’t then deny this and say ‘it’s not because of white people’. It started with white people. All people have a responsibility to fight for equality.

Men are hired on the assumption they will be able to do the job.
So men do not apply for a role? Don’t need qualifications or experience? They are hired purely because of penis power?

Women are hired when they have proven they can.
Interesting, so how do I prove I can do a role I have not yet worked in? Time machine?

I really hate these cliche sayings that completely discredit the existence of sexism with their inanity.

Your husband is very very stupid. He is benefiting from male privilege but refuses to see it. Thick as fuck