To think extra lessons for top students isn’t fair?

[Beepboobeep]

My DD’s state primary school has a “top maths club” and “great writers club” for the top performing students in yr 5 and 6 held outside of school hours. There is no charge for this - so it’s free childcare and free tutoring. You have to be invited. This has been running since the second week of the school year and is restarting on the first day of this half term.

By contrast, my dyslexic DD is in a group for those needing more support in writing, also outside of school hours. But they only managed 2 sessions last year and it hasn’t started back up this year. She gets ad hoc in school support; where it happens she misses other lessons that aren’t then caught up on, putting her further behind in the those.

I appreciate these children deserve challenging, but surely that could be done in class with different work and the teacher’s out of hours time, if available, used to help those struggling?

Is this even allowed in a state primary?

Btw no SEN child would getter more help or better help because the school close these clubs. It's two different things. You won't move ressources to SEN children by not offering af few hours of clubs for bright pupils.

So because they are tutoring to pass the 11 plus, which has zero value other than to pass an exam, they shouldn't have access to an out of school club run by the school?

This sounds like a club aiming at supporting kids interested in maths rather than providing extra maths lessons. Same as a netball club aimed at the school netball team predominantly.

If you want tuition for your child, pay for it same as those doing the 11 plus have been.

Do you have the means to engage a tutor for your child? If there is no way to convince the school to help those who are struggling, you will have to find another way. Even a “peer tutor” who is a bit older who’s already been through the assignments and concepts she’s facing could be a great help.

It's a weird one isn't it!? I would agree. No private school here either.

Edited to say I hadn't realised it was about grammar. Thought it was a genuine discussion about high achievers and SEN lack of focus on the latter.

I've come up with the solution.

You flip the current unfair situation by spending the school hours (approx 25 hours a week) focussed on teaching at a higher level ( that your child and others can't engage with ) and your child can have the one hour after school focussed on work at their level. Would that be better?

2k a month for clubs? Why not pay for tutoring then instead of sports etc. In principle you’re right, more support should be given to those struggling, especially in a school obsessed with results. But you’re fortunate to be in a position to be able to fund additional support should you wish so sensible you’re going to spend money on a school that has smaller numbers.

Children getting full marks are being let down as they aren’t experiencing academic challenge within the classroom. If the school stopped the sessions they would be failing to meet the needs of those children. So what you actually want is for support to be removed from children who need it.

When I was at school it was called gifted and talented, it was very annoying when a parent would moan that we shouldn’t be provided for because their child was on track for a B.

All kids need support tailored to their needs and it’s not fair on the brighter kids if the only out of school lessons offered are for those requiring additional support, or vice versa.

I wouldn’t bring “free childcare” into it, that’s a red herring.

You might have indirectly answered your own question. It sounds like grammar schools really competitive in your area and they’re putting in place the extra support the kids with highest chance of getting in might need to get in to make sure they do.

I suspect this is an attraction for many parents and they make it clear before joining

Isn’t it their parents are organising and paying for the after school and summer tutoring in the same way you’re able to do so for your child?

Just because their parents do so, doesn’t mean the school should focus their efforts elsewhere.

For us all our SEN classes were after school so after 5pm or before 8am (in France ) 2x a week. Nothing is ever done at school for this. Massive waiting lists. You applied to every single specialist and went on the waiting lists. We had 2 dyslexic kids.

Our other 3 kids had to wait. They did after school homework clubs at school, which are also standard here. Then we all had an hour commute home. 7-7 days. Then I had to cook or reheat supper, we also had to do the sheep and walk the dogs.

you do what you need to do to level the playing field. Whatever it takes. Every single time.

That said by the time they reached 18 I was absolutely done with parenting.

Firstly, school isnt child care.
You're right. SEND provision is lacking but it will simply br because they lack staff to run it. That isnt school fault. After school activities are run at the good will of staff so it isnt paid.
Thats just how it is. Write to local authority/MP about underfunding in schools and lack of SEND staff.

You are contradicting yourself as your prev post as of 21:36 says “happy for them to have clubs if those that need it have support first” implying you do what them prioritised.

I think it’s possibly also a matter of it being discretionary effort for teachers so they can spend their own free time as they wish.

Well those parents kids won’t be having the summer school or tutoring either, so your rationale that the gifted kids don’t need the extra support as they sheet get it would fall over in this case

Do you mean gifted or struggling as that case would apply to both?

It’s admirable you’re rightly standing up for your daughter but do so in a way that’s to secure for her what she needs independent of others rather than comparing and contrasting against what others get, it’s not a race to the bottom.

Also, gently, if you’re already spending £2k/month on supporting her privately, it would be worth considering if an extra hour or two is likely to make that much of a difference. I’d suggest it isn’t

I’m conflicted really. I really don’t agree with challenging SEND children in mainstream schools disrupting the education of everyone else so why shouldn’t the school put on some extra classes for those that enjoy learning and might want a nice environment with like minded pupils to do it in?

Set this issue aside.

You need to contact the senco to see why the extra sen groups haven't been consistent. Maybe staff sickness or other commitments but it isn't good enough if they promised one thing and didn't deliver.

Be pleased for the other kids that are getting that additional challenge - but stand up for your DD too
Good luck.

X

Is the maths club autumn born boys predominantly? I commented when a Y1 extension maths group was all autumn born boys. They get confidence because they are older when they start school when the age gap matters more, and some people expect boys to be better at maths still sadly, and girls’ abilities can go unrecognised and unsupported.

Yes OP is all over the place.

From the ton of her posts she was also clearly outraged that other parents have their kids tutored outside of school....but then a few posts later (after pps said "well you could do that too") says oh well actually I do I spend two thousand pounds a month on tutoring etc 🤨

If this thread is real (big IF) ... I only hope the OP is not passing this victim mentality onto her child; it will do far more damage than any inconsistent after school club.

It’s probably more of a hobby club for teachers who have to run a club after school. It’ll be a lot easier to run a club where you let children free write stories, than to resource and plan intervention lessons.

Plus, intervention shouldn’t be happening after school and should be through the school day. Some students may not be able to attend, and teachers shouldn’t be expected to be teaching after their hours whereas they can be asked to run a club.

sadly, you need to pay for a tutor outside school hours

Omg

The big reveal... well we are sending her to private school...

Rage bait nonsense

Exactly. During class time, the children in my Y6 DC’s class who are good at maths are left to do problems on the computers by themselves while those who are struggling get taught by the teacher. From the different levels of homework (we can see three different sets of maths questions), it’s clear to me that those on the lowest level don’t have a hope in hell of passing SATs in six months’ time, but they get the most time and attention during lessons while children who could be pushed to excel are left to their own devices. Our school also offers extra maths lessons for the greater depth children and that is when they get the teacher’s time and attention.

I wish schools would do more of this as bright children are often ignored in favour of those who struggle or misbehave - which is why the parents end up paying for out of school tutoring in the first place.

We have the bright child problem. I. Year 2, she was just sat there reading in class, managed to finish whole books, like Horrid Henry, rainbow magic and Captain Underpants in a school day.

Year 2 is a bit better. But the teacher had absolutely nothing to suggest at parents evening. Only thing she could say was "needs to slow down a little bit when reading aloud".... 😂