To think neurodivergence is more common than neurotypical?

[PrincessOfPreschool]

I'm expecting to get hammered for this and it's only based on my sample size of family, extended family/ in laws, friends, people I work with, children I work with but...

I know a LOT of people who I would describe as 'neurodivergent', I think more than I know who are 'neurotypical'. Some of these are diagnosed (more of the younger generation, a few of my generation and none of my parents' generation - in their 80s). Obviously it's a spectrum so only a very few are significantly impacted in their daily lives (unable to go to school or work) but I can definitely see strong traits in my generation and older, many coping mechanisms being used throughout their lives. I do have quite a high awareness due to training in my work, and knowing friends family with ADHD and autism.

I wondered if it's just my family and the people I know, or if neurodivergence is actually really common to the point of being equally, or even more common, than neurotypical. Why is called divergent if it's actually quite typical?

What's your experience?

Not saying this never happens but it would be very hard to do. You have to demonstrate you had disabling difficulties before the age of 12 and you are normally expected to provide evidence such as school reports and evidence from people who knew you in childhood. You would also have to be incredibly consistent over the course of a 3 hour appointment because tbe psychiatrist or whoever is doing the assessment needs numerous examples of problems caused by tbe same deficit eg poor working memory. I really highly doubt this is a common occurrence. Also, the recent report commissioned by the government could not find any evidence of misdiagnosis as scale.

You can get a diagnosis without childhood evidence. My friend is non contact with her mum and has no childhood reports so no evidence. She just talked about her childhood and what was difficult and that was enough. Her assessment was an hour over zoom but that was private and not nhs.

it’s for the psychiatrist or whoever is doing the diagnostic assessment to know whether somebody is ND or not. It is not possible for the rest of us know.

And remember that I only gave one example
of one problem. . Nobody is going to get diagnosed with ADHD if working exceptionally hard at remembering appointments is their only problem. To get a diagnosis you have to have a long list of issues like this.

Agree with this. My partner is diagnosed and faces huge struggles and is medicated— it really is a different kettle of fish to the middle class friends deciding they’re ’a bit different’.

I said neurodivergent which includes Dyslexia, Dyscalculia and Dyspraxia as well Autism and ADHD.

Not true. For example, in Hampshire you can register yourself as disabled www.hants.gov.uk/socialcareandhealth/adultsocialcare/registerasdisabled

But doesn't this kind of prove the point? Because there are people who say that they only know 1-2 ND people and can't understand this idea that "everyone is ND now" yet others seem to know loads. I am surprised if you've taught in schools (in the UK?) with no ginger-haired children though, unless these are smaller non-school settings or you teach older secondary? It's not a perfect analogy because it does vary by area, Scotland has the most as said, London has the least, but even in London it's still 2-3% apparently, so still not rare as such. I moved out of the UK, the country I live has a red hair prevalence of 2-3% as well.

I probably just like it as an analogy because my younger DC are redheads, my half siblings are redheads, about half of DH's family are or were, growing up in England I don't think I was ever in a class without at least one, I meet them/spot them all the time, in the small village where I live there are at least 2 other families with redheaded children, some parents as well. Maybe (like ND) it's also more visible to me because people notice my DC's hair and stop to tell me their grandmother/husband/second cousin thrice removed has red hair (or did as a child - hair often darkens in adolescence) and perhaps I wouldn't notice the mum in the park with the red-haired toddler if my DC didn't point them out and say "Look, they have hair like me!"

Apart from those with hearing or sight impairments there's no national disability register

That’s not registering yourself as disabled though, it’s applying for a proof of disability card. You are already legally disabled with or without the card.
In the same way that applying for an access card isn’t “registering yourself as disabled”.

Yes, I know you can get a diagnosis without documentary evidence from your childhood or a parent providing evidence. It’s preferred though. In the end for anyone over about the age of 30 this is often going to be impossible.

However, this does not mean that the diagnostician can’t develop a thorough and convincing picture. There are other unbiased sources of information such as medical records. ADHD has many comorbidities and perhaps your friend has several of them.

i agree a one-hour appointment is concerning. The fact that it was on Zoom is not concerning. Perhaps your friend supplied amounts of documentary evidence?

There currently is no regulatory body who oversees who can/does diagnose ADHD/ autism so a lot of it will be responding to market forces - people want a diagnosis and they’ve paid to get it. You’re not going to get many good reviews and referrals for new customers if you don’t validate feelings and say “autistic” “audhd “ “adhd” and instead say “disorganised, can be shy, slightly peculiar but not to the point of impairment”

"If you register as disabled your details will be stored by Hampshire County Council on a confidential database and you will be given a small card as proof of your registration.
The information you provide is important as it will be used to help in the planning, monitoring and development of services for people with disabilities in Hampshire (excluding the two unitary authorities of Portsmouth and Southampton)."

It is registering yourself as disabled. It isn't necessary or required, and it isn't the legally mandated register that applies to those with sight or hearing loss, but it is a register. I was responding to the statement that there is 'no such thing as registering yourself disabled.' There is such a thing.

Disability Registration Cards are free. They are valid for life and are a quick and easy way of proving that you have a disability and need to use facilities provided for disabled people.

Its not registering yourself as disabled though, its a local card for proof of disability if you want to use disabled ticket or free carers discounts or other offers.

Details held on a database and data used for planning services. I'm not going to endlessly debate it, but it's a register. Voluntary, non-statutory. Still a register.

0 in my oldest class.
Maybe 6 or 7 in my youngest class but then he's in special school.
6 children out of 26 are diagnosed with autism in your child's class really? Or do you mean 6 have autism or adhd or dyslexia?

No. You are wrong. Yes, many people are neurodivergent, and you might personally come across a high percentage in your life because it is in many cases genetic.

But neurotypical people are the majority. They have, by definition, typical brains. I don't like using the word here but it gets the point across - these are what can be thought of as "normal" brains.

Everyone is different of course, but claiming that the majority of people are ND just makes life more challenging for those who truly are ND.

We're talking about neurodivergence, so yes, that would include ADHD and dyslexia.

I was asking the person making the claim what they were including. Of course 6 out of 26 is still about 23% which is nowhere near being more common than neurotypical.

The recent gov report by Prof Fonagy has said there need to be a regulatory body but also
said there is no evidence of misdiagnosis currently happening at scale. So I don’t think this is a big probe of to be honest. Also most people who are not diagnosable are weeded out before they get to the spending money stage - there is a triage type systems.

Doesn’t knock out the marginal cases for whom the difficulties are actually nigh on non existent.
People who might not enjoy various social situations but have coped, and have jobs, families, qualifications and are some of the most vocal about the “difficulties” they face (eg that anaesthetist Mary Doherty who had the gall to say in the guardian article at the weekend that she has “a strong instinctive affinity with, say, an autistic person who is non-verbal and has learning disabilities”)

I just keep coming back to the likelihood.. the likelihood of my group of female friends from school where 80-90% of us now suspect adhd or autism. Rather than life being hard, we grew up poor, we all had non typical family set ups, we met through a shared interest which attracts slightly damaged people, are we really saying that we all are undiagnosed neurodivergent women?

You can’t get a diagnosis of ADHD or autism
if your “difficulties are actually nigh on non existent”. Or in other words anyone without clinically significant impairments by definition does not meet the diagnostic criteria.

He would be entitled to a blue badge as an example but to do so he would need to register himself for it, same for any disability related benefits if and when the time comes.

I agree with this entirely.

At some point a team of "professionals" decided to split humanity in two, a box for each, one supposedly "normal" and one "not" and label them with clever words. It's absolute bollocks if you think about it.

I would likely be put in the ND box. I felt very different when I was young but now, the more people I meet the more 'typical' I think I am!

Except people do. People with well paid jobs, lots of friends, a partner and kids that are well cared for.