To think neurodivergence is more common than neurotypical?

[PrincessOfPreschool]

I'm expecting to get hammered for this and it's only based on my sample size of family, extended family/ in laws, friends, people I work with, children I work with but...

I know a LOT of people who I would describe as 'neurodivergent', I think more than I know who are 'neurotypical'. Some of these are diagnosed (more of the younger generation, a few of my generation and none of my parents' generation - in their 80s). Obviously it's a spectrum so only a very few are significantly impacted in their daily lives (unable to go to school or work) but I can definitely see strong traits in my generation and older, many coping mechanisms being used throughout their lives. I do have quite a high awareness due to training in my work, and knowing friends family with ADHD and autism.

I wondered if it's just my family and the people I know, or if neurodivergence is actually really common to the point of being equally, or even more common, than neurotypical. Why is called divergent if it's actually quite typical?

What's your experience?

If you're NT, then it's quite normal that nobody in your family (given that it's genetic) or any of your friends would be ND. And that circles outwards...eg if your siblings are NT, then their partners probably are too, etc.

That doesn't mean we don't exist 😂 we just don't gravitate towards you and vice versa.

I thought it was this - flocking togther in family and friend groups or workplaces.

It's in family - and we keep pairing 2 up with other families with something in.

Also DC tend to make friends with people who later get diagonsed.

DH work areas with high rates as was my first career pre kids was.

I still wouldn't say it was most people though.

Yay an autism-bashing thread to complement the identical ADHD ones.

So which workplaces are ‘NT’ ones?

This whole thread is in poor taste and trivializes a condition incredibly disabling for many.

If neurotypicals would be the minority, they wouldn't be typical. They would be the stand out people. All my children have autism (special school, ehcp so quite affected) but I can't relate to your post at all. If course we know a lot in the spectrum given that these are the circles we largely frequent due to DC but I know far more NTs than those on the spectrum. Also, do get a diagnoses you need to have a significant functional impairment. It sounds like you are referring largely to the self diagnosed attention seekers rather than those who are genuinely autistic, have ADHD etc. that's is quite a difference.

So you think more than half the people in your workplace are ND, over half the people in your children's class, over half the people in your family, over half your friends? Really?

Me and DD have ADHD and DS has autism. I'm sick to death of people saying "I think we've all got a bit of ADHD" or acting like it's some sort of cool personality trait. It's not and I fucking hate my brain sometimes.

I curse myself every day for passing this on to DD. Watching her struggle so much, particularly with her learning difficulties at school, is heartbreaking. The teachers don't seem to get it. This half term there were only 9 days when she wasn't sent to Reset or given Internal Suspension. She's not a naughty kid, she's frustrated and misunderstood.

I do think you can tell when someone doesn't really have ADHD because they only ever mention the trendy, Instagram-friendly symptoms. Being easily distracted, having a million thoughts, being chaotic or having loads of energy. They rarely mention the other stuff: emotional dysregulation, rejection sensitivity, executive dysfunction, crippling self-doubt and the impact it has on your ability to function.

It's knowing exactly what you need to do but being unable to make yourself do it. Feeling everything ten times more intensely. Struggling with friendships, relationships, school and work. Losing jobs, missing opportunities and constantly feeling like you're failing at things other people seem to manage effortlessly. And the worst part is knowing you're struggling, knowing you're letting people down, but being unable to just make your brain cooperate.

And dont get me started on the "superpower" crap. For plenty of us, it's exhausting, debilitating and affects practically every aspect of life.

It's a bit like saying we're all a bit like someone with bladder problems because we all need to pee. Yes, everyone forgets things, gets distracted and procrastinates. But there's a massive difference between occasionally experiencing something and experiencing it so frequently and intensely that it affects your entire life. It's the severity, frequency and impact that people don't seem to understand.

Sorry for the rant 🙈

Bring back the spectrums.

It’s genetic so therefore if it’s in your/a family it’s likely to be present quite widely.

once you are familiar with traits then you are more likely to recognise them around you.

it’s becoming more accepted to be yourself or not mask as much. I’m in all likely asd, I have one child diagnosed one on the pathway. I would be in the category of Asperger’s/it’s a super power. Extremely bright and appear put together. It is everything but a superpower and I work extremely hard at life but from the outside I would be viewed as a success in everything. It’s only recently that anyone from the outside world would see anything. Pre menopause, 2 children with additional needs and I could give a crap attitude and my mask is slipping.

And equally, just because someone is not diagnosed doesn't mean they are NT.

DD says self-diagnosed ADHD is rife in her age group -late 20s -30s, to get the amphetamines prescribed.
I'm in Australia, and oddly, there's an article in today's Age about the increase in psychosis because of the use of amphetamines. Sorry, behind a paywall.

YANBU. In the past these sorts of traits would not be micro-labelled to the same degree but yeah I wouldn't be surprised if at least half of all humans were neurodivergent to some degree.

Society has been primarily devised by neurotypical people who tend to do better at that sort of thing, and it's been designed with other neurotypical people in mind simply because no one knew any better. Which is why so many neurodiveegent people often feel more out of place or struggle more than neurological people do.

Edited to correct neurological (thanks autocorrect! to neurotypical)

I think it's very common. I also think there's a strand of thought where people think neuro typical = finds everyday tasks and socialising easy and is adept at it. Very very few people are adept as social situations, most people are bad at them. And most people struggle with tasks, procrastination, focus on a particular task etc. But if we acknowledge that then they do blur together - personally I think neuro diversity is a spectrum, with everyone having a degree of it, but some having very severe problems, and others able to function OK day to day.

Certainly more than half of my family and friends. Not sure about workplace - but lots of the kids, yes. Bit young to say for sure. My kids' classes, well my kids 'pass' for NT but struggle so I'm sure there's more like them. (Tends to get more pronounced the older they get in my experience, mine are all young adults now).

And no, with family and friends it's not just the 'trendy' Tik Tok signs (I'm not on insta or Tik Tok). It's really deep-seated difficulties in coping with life, sometimes manifesting into mental health problems but I think the start is often neurodivergence masking. Of course, there are the more severe cases and these are much rarer, children who need to be in specialist education provision, adults who will never be able to support themselves.

If the 'average' is 20% then it's likely through genes and 'birds of a feather' that I know more than half.

I do some volunteering with neurodiverse teenagers who I would say are severely disabled - for example they only have a handful of words, or they can talk more but have obvious learning disabilities which would mean they’d be unable to do a job. For many of them it would probably be unsafe for them to go anywhere on their own as they don’t have the ability to communicate their needs. They go to specialist schools. I’d say that degree of disability is quite unusual and doesn’t apply to most people.

Strange isn't it? So many parents of my son's friends, so excited about Halloween 'lets meet at 2pm, do a party, party games with winners and losers and prizes, all socialist together, eat food they've never seen before from unfamiliar plates in unfamiliar surroundings then let's approach the homes of strangers and tell a joke, but everyone will jostle to tell their joke first and some places will give 1 sweet and some will give bags of sweets and they'll have no say in what those sweets are and the kids will say thanks and look grateful and not be confused about taking sweets they dislike and say thank you....' meanwhile I'm over here trying to stick rigidly to our usual schedule but fit in trick or treating and socialising' because they're old enough to want that but lack the resilience to cope with a lot of it. I didn't see many kids screaming on the pavement in a sensory meltdown. Just mine.

I think there are brains which are wired differently to the social human norm if you like and that is ND, a difficulty with social connection, social cues, communication and processing of all of the above. That can also apply to the persons internal communication and processing (ie what they understand of themselves)

However I think there are brains which are not wired differently so in my view are not 'ND' but where the person shows traits and abilities or compromises which mean they struggle with the above because thats normal human variability

So I dont think its more common than NT brains, I think NT brains are far more varied than accepted

I think it’s worrying that a hell of a lot more than 20% identify as ND if 20% is meant to be the figure. I think it’s the fact you can just identify as and not even be formally diagnosed- so many people now identify as ND when they quite probably are not. Instagram does not help with reels saying things like- always forgetful, losing stuff, often late, lose track of time etc means you must have adhd when that’s just normal. Some people genuinely struggle but many have just decided that are ND because of things that are totally normal to struggle with. It takes the piss and really doesn’t help people who are genuinely disabled by being ND.

I know well over 20% of people identifying as ND with kids either diagnosed or on waiting lists. If the figure eventually grows past 20% which it is likely to, I wonder if the terminology will change.

I agree the idea of what a fully functioning person is like now is totally bollocks as it is so unrealistic

Well, it depends what you mean. In the late eighties/early nineties, at my primary, virtually all the children would have been called NT, not that we used the term. The only children who we were told were autistic had what you might call severe needs, eg non-verbal, could not use the toilet or be in a class without a TA, would never have been expected to eventually pass GSSEs or work.
Yet many more people my age were diagnosed relatively recently (say within the last decade or so). One used a test (she did go down a path with a specialist and I'm not saying this was the only question) which said you had ADHD if you "sometimes have trouble focusing on a task"-and I've never yet met anyone who hasn't had this at least once in their life.
And NT/ND sounds binary, yet a lot of people would use the term spectrum. Where exactly is the line between the two? Add to that that a lot of experts say things like iron levels/diet/parenting affects how people cope with ND, and it's quite hard to answer.

An increase in psychosis is extremely worrying

I’d disagree, in a class of 30 for example you have 1 or 2 who stick out like a sore thumb, a couple of maskers then the rest well that’s just their ways, everyone has their quirks. It isn’t always ND.

There is a massive trend of middle aged people now saying they are ND, as above everyone has their quirks and ways.

Yes there’s so many self diagnosing and those internet reels don’t help at all. If you just have some mild traits and aren’t significantly impacted and haven’t been in childhood then you’re not ND and aren’t getting a diagnosis.

This really resonates with me. I've seen my friends posting pictures of their DC at Halloween events, one of which thinks her DS is autistic and maybe he is, I've seen him really struggle with emotional regulation when they don't get their own way. But I'm looking at these pictures of him posing for the camera with mascots smiling and sat with other children doing crafts and I'm thinking that is so out of reach for my DS. We tried a couple of events like that and a meltdown quickly ensues, he doesn't smile for the camera and wouldn't go and stand with a stranger no matter how exciting they look, he couldn't sit at a table with unknown children and do crafts. I know not all children are as severe as mine but it does sting sometimes. When I shared his diagnosis with friends I've had one say well everyone's autistic now aren't they. No, no they are not. A lot of people think they are but not many really are.