To think neurodivergence is more common than neurotypical?

[PrincessOfPreschool]

I'm expecting to get hammered for this and it's only based on my sample size of family, extended family/ in laws, friends, people I work with, children I work with but...

I know a LOT of people who I would describe as 'neurodivergent', I think more than I know who are 'neurotypical'. Some of these are diagnosed (more of the younger generation, a few of my generation and none of my parents' generation - in their 80s). Obviously it's a spectrum so only a very few are significantly impacted in their daily lives (unable to go to school or work) but I can definitely see strong traits in my generation and older, many coping mechanisms being used throughout their lives. I do have quite a high awareness due to training in my work, and knowing friends family with ADHD and autism.

I wondered if it's just my family and the people I know, or if neurodivergence is actually really common to the point of being equally, or even more common, than neurotypical. Why is called divergent if it's actually quite typical?

What's your experience?

I agree.

You can if you pay for it and have the personal conviction and eloquence to explainthat the “difficulties”” you experience are absolutely terrible
objectively the difficulties are inconsequential

Having a job, family and qualifications does not mean autism won’t have a significant impact on life! Define “coped”. Some “cope”
by self medicating, engaging jn self harm, needing strong medication, burning out, restricting food…

I’m one of those people who is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and also has a DH, DCs, a good job. But what you don’t see is what goes on behind that throughout my life. I have been significantly affected, my difficulties aren’t almost none-existent. People with autism have different profiles and struggle with different things. Just because someone’s issues aren’t as visible as some others doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

It's complex and I do wonder about the higher functioning cases. Often what is happening though is that the spouse is taking on vastly more of the workload than their fair share. Far beyond the inequalities you tend to see in NT couples where the man is just not pulling his weight. Or in some cases if one or both partners have well paying jobs, they can afford a lot of outside help for household stuff. But some people do have milder versions that would be more accurately seen as a manageable condition rather than a full-blown disability. I don't have an issue with this demographic being given diagnoses if it helps them, but it's incredibly frustrating when they don't then understand the extent of the impairment suffered by those who are actually disabled by their neurodivergence. And you get comments like "well I have ADHD and it's hard for me but I manage it so they must just not be trying hard enough".

On Mumsnet, definitely.

They have to demonstrate it has an impact on their lives which by definition is a disability

They may look like they're managing on the outside but the reality is they're not. But how do you know that by looking at them?

That is not evidence of having or not having ADHD. There are plenty of highly successful celebs, business tycoons, doctors, scientists etc of having ADHD eg Jamie Oliver and Sue Perkins.

The part you don’t understand is that just because it is not obvious to you and others that somebody has difficulties, that does not mean they don’t. It simply means they you haven’t noticed or they are invisible.

Experiencing significant difficulties is literally a mandatory thing that has to be fulfilled to receive a diagnosis.

Well who needs clinical expertise and diagnostic criteria when there
are people out there who know better.

To get a diagnosis of autism it’s has to have a significant impact on life- that is a disability. The autistic community is massively under or unemployed. You really are making up nonsense.You do realise there are many autistic women too don’t you. Yes they have historically been shut out of the diagnosis process however they very much exist none the less.

According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, neither ADHD or Autism is automatically considered a disability in the UK. They are technically disorders but can be disabilities if the level of impairment is significant enough. Which I think is fair - you can have symptoms which significantly impact your life without them disabling you and that's why you do sometimes come across people who are able to function at a much higher level than others - it's not that there's no impairment or that they're not having to work harder than someone with no impairment but that the impairment can be overcome with a level of effort that can be sustained and to a degree that would be considered sufficient for them to be able to hold down a good job, bring up kids, have a full social life etc.

I don't make any judgements on this type of thing just by looking at people. But from what people write online and on social media about how they experience their condition themselves, it's obvious that there are some people who are not disabled by their autism or ADHD. It doesn't mean that it isn't a disability for many others. I don't think we should refuse to diagnose the higher functioning if the knowledge or medication makes a big difference to their lives but it is frustrating when they think everyone can overcome their difficulties to the extent they can with a little extra effort and some better strategies. Although I see this far more often for ADHD than I do for autism.

See my post above - neither are automatically classed as a disability according to the Citizen's Advice Bureau who are play a significant role in helping people with their benefits applications; both can exist at a lover level more akin to that of a manageable condition, which doesn't mean many of those with diagnoses aren't actually disabled - severely so in a great many cases. And off course I realise there are autistic women - I just don't personally know any who are married to neurotypical men who do the lion's share of the domestic labour.

So it's all just judged based on their internal feelings.

Very few disabilities are specifically listed, autism is no different. However anybody who has an autism diagnosis and thus has their life significantly impacted by it to meet the threshold will be able to show ( if they so choose) that they are living with a disability.

Under the Equality Act, a person has a disability if they meet a specific two-part test:

1. They have a physical or mental impairment (autism is legally recognized as a neurodevelopmental or mental impairment).
2. The impairment has a substantial and long-term adverse effect on their ability to carry out normal day-to-day activities.

Substantial means more than minor or trivial: The legal guidance states that if a condition impacts daily tasks like socialising, working, using public transport, or communicating, it meets this threshold. A diagnostic report stating that autism "significantly impacts life" is explicit documentation that the impact is more than minor or trivial.

Long-term means lasting 12 months or more: Because autism is a lifelong developmental condition, it inherently satisfies the long-term requirement.

ACAS notes that neurodivergent conditions like autism will often amount to a disability under the law, even if the individual person does not personally use or identify with the term "disabled".

If an individual meets this definition, they are legally protected from discrimination and are entitled to legal rights such as reasonable adjustments at work, in education, or when accessing public services.

Also Under UK law, whether a person is classed as disabled is evaluated before taking into account the mitigating effects of medical treatments or assistive aids.

I can’t see how it would be possible to be autistic and not be disabled.

I have never used the words minor or trivial. I have said that some people have a level of impairment that is not insignificant but is more in line with what would be considered a manageable condition. And the information published by the Citizens Advice Bureau appears to back this up. This doesn't mean that many or even most people with an autism diagnoses are not living with a disability. Autism is clearly a disorder that disables most people living with it.

You have written that "ACAS notes that neurodivergent conditions like autism will often amount to a disability under the law" would also seem to provide evidence for the point I'm making - that most disorders falling under the neurodivergence umbrella are very often disabilities but not always or automatically considered so. I don't see why this is controversial.

Disability is assessed before aids and it’s not about disability being manageable but it’s effect -for good reason, manageable can mean anything.

No. It’s based on a range of evidence eg exam grades; medical history, career, relationship history, etc etc

So someone with a great academic achievement, great job and successfully happy marriage could not be diagnosed? Except they are.

It is more complicated than that. You don’t know the full details of someone else’s life. Eg how much help they are getting, what their home life looks like, what their hobbies are. their medical history, their exam grades and how hard they worked for those grades. Some careers and hobbies are more indicative of ADHD than others. ADHD has many comorbidities, both physical and psychiatric illnesses and it unusual to have only ADHD and no other issues.

There are lots of people out there who think I had a good career and a good marriage. Both looked good on the outside. I was bullied at work and abused at home. I was well-paid but nowhere near as well paid as I should have been.

Very very few autistic people have jobs let alone greta jobs. 70% are unemployed and for those that do work half are underemployed. Autism has a massive impact on relationships, marriage rates are much lower than for those that are NT. Autism puts huge strains on relationships. Also for the marriages that are happy couples will be managing a lot. Many disabled people will be in happy marriages, doesn’t mean things aren’t hugely difficult.

I know people diagnosed with autism in very good jobs and with happy marriages who manage a busy social life and have happy children. Women so yes they do most of the grunt work.
And it's why knowing people like this in real life that I do think there is over diagnosis.

It absolutely isn’t the norm as the stats which are well known and understandable (given the impact on life )show. For the very few in “very good jobs” there will be many many struggles behind the scenes you aren’t privy to.

As I said before you don’t know what happens behind all this.

I suppose comparing autism to dyslexia probably does work fairly well
Some people are debilitated by it and find it really difficult to function in a very writing heavy society and is manifestly obvious from early primary school, some people the only manifestation is extremely creative spelling (and it only gets picked up when it’s looked for, eg after someone gets into oxbridge.)