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Reached the end of my tether

132 replies

Isitmeanttobethishard · 26/10/2026 20:19

I’ve posted before about my DS fighting. I seriously can’t carry on like this. It’s been months, they fight relentlessly over everything. Calm approaches haven’t worked, big huge dressing downs haven’t worked. Taking away treats and screens hasn’t worked. It’s not just bickering, it escalates very quickly into screaming, shouting, name calling and hitting.

Tonight, after having to break up 7 fights, I lost it (it’s happened so many times over the last few months). They both went to bed sobbing, with no cuddles or stories, but it will carry on tomorrow morning.

Help. I’m seriously contemplating separating from my DH and taking a child each on rotation as we’re just not a happy family, I can’t live my life like this.

OP posts:
WinterBlues26 · 27/10/2026 09:03

our walks often start on the wrong foot (!) anyway as there’s been arguing to get him out, so once he’s in that bad mood DS2 gets it.

Why are you arguing with an 11yr old? You tell him to put his shoes and coat on, do a count down so they know a consequence will happen if they don't, otherwise you stand there silently until they do (and physicallyblock their escape route with other son sent to a different room. His consequence is not doing something he enjoys (you mentioned he enjoys sports club). But you MUST follow through. You wait hours if necessary.

But stop with the arguing yourself as you've brought yourself down to an 11yr rather than being a parent. You tell your children to do things. You don't argue, cajole or plead. From now on they do not have choices or free will over anything (such as where to sit) until they start behaving. But you and DH need to step up massively as it's not an easy fix now their behaviour has become normal for them.

They will shout at each other from their bedrooms.
One upstairs, one with you downstairs. The one with you gets to scrub the kitchen floor, or hoover, or water the plants outside. Make them too busy to shout. The one upstairs will stop shouting when he realises the other one can't hear or respond.

Babayagahaha · 27/10/2026 09:17

I bet you've "intervened" for years with them. My SIL did this, never let the kids "fight". All it raised was 2 resentful kids. If they'd got to the end of a fight aged 5 and 2, they'd have got it out of their system.

You're giving too much credence to your neighbours and not enough to yourself and long term wellbeing.

Step away from it for 4 weeks. Don't intervene at all, see what happens.

Livelovebehappy · 27/10/2026 09:28

Isitmeanttobethishard · 26/10/2026 20:33

They both went to bed hyperventilating tonight they were that upset. DH had to do deep breathing with them to calm down, but I guarantee tomorrow will be the same story.

The fact that your dh is doing ‘deep breathing’ to calm down their tantrum induced hyperventilating, suggests that some gentle parenting is going on here. As soon as a fight breaks out, send them immediately to their rooms for an hour or rest of the evening. No devices. Do this every single time. Be consistent. If this is done every time, they’re old enough to then understand that this is the consequence of their actions. Do they have a joint interest or activity they can bond over?

CraftySeal · 27/10/2026 09:37

Do they have periods where they get along and enjoy each others' company, or are they permanently in a bad dynamic?

It sounds like they're fixated on the idea of the other one being fundamentally unjust towards them and they can't bear to let anything go and feel these perceived (or real) injustices hugely and need to vocalise them loudly.

I wonder if there's something they could read or watch, particularly the older one, about the benefits of detaching from people annoying you, knowing you can't change them, letting things go and internally holding the moral high ground. Or are they just too young for this to mean anything.

Edit just realised they're 11 and 8 so probably not unless there's something very age appropriate and impactful.

Greentomatoes21 · 27/10/2026 09:38

Situation sounds awful. As many have said, consistent consequences is what I would do - something that bothers them consistently applied. Sent to room for x amount of time with nothing to do, a privilege removed like pocket money deduction, device removal, club attendance. Something they won't like every single time. Tell them about it first, then follow through as soon as required. If they get upset, which I assume they will from what you said about hyperventilating, by all means support them but uphold the consequence no matter what.

Postjurywoes · 27/10/2026 09:40

In the car they sit separately
Come home separate them immediately
They only come out of their rooms when they behave
No TV
No Internet
No treats
Nothing

Postjurywoes · 27/10/2026 09:42

Isitmeanttobethishard · 26/10/2026 20:33

They both went to bed hyperventilating tonight they were that upset. DH had to do deep breathing with them to calm down, but I guarantee tomorrow will be the same story.

There's your issue right there.
So bloody what they went to bed hyperventilating
Your husband then sat and did deep breathing with them.....
Get a bloody grip and start being a parent

sashh · 27/10/2026 09:47

Isitmeanttobethishard · 27/10/2026 08:24

@mrsmumbles by removing all oxygen you mean letting them hash it out? I have said I will not subject my neighbours to that, it’s not fair, I am actually very considerate of the wider society I live in!

Let your neighbours know what you are doing, let them hash it out but then they have to go to the neighbours and appologise for the noise.

Also instead of sending them to their rooms could you send them to each others room? Nothing worse at those ages of a sibling in your bedroom.

wantmorenow · 27/10/2026 09:50

Sounds awful and I can remember being driven to despair by my older 2 fighting. Perhaps it is time to get in outside help and support. Perhaps family therapy and/or parenting classes. Changing long established dynamics is tough. Where in the country are you? Perhaps MNetters may have local recommendations.

Delphiniumandlupins · 27/10/2026 09:54

Friend had this issue with two eldest sons. No help to you but it got worse when they teenagers - elder was bigger and stronger, younger was faster-witted and gobby. They are great friends as adults though.

IsItSnowing · 27/10/2026 09:56

Sorry, somehow posted twice.

IsItSnowing · 27/10/2026 09:58

As someone who grew up in a family where I (the eldest) was always blamed for everything and my younger sister was always considered the victim, I'd urge you to look a bit more closely at your claim that DS1 is usually to blame for it all. It's rarely true and it's very frustrating to grow up knowing that you're not getting a fair hearing on anything.
Siblings do fight. I have 2 boys (grown up now) and there were certainly conflicts. And yours are at an annoying age.
But I think your bias (probably unconscious - at least I hope so) isn't helping. You're letting your DS2 think that he can start whatever he wants and his brother will get into trouble for it. It's a bit of a sport for him by the sound of it. And the fact he gets into trouble eventually won't dent that feeling of triumph that he initially gets when DS1 is punished. So he won't stop doing it.
Try not to focus on the fallout. Instead, look very closely at the starting point of these conflicts. And start to deal with that and only that. You need to wind back the assumption that whatever DS2 does or doesn't do to start a conflict that they are both to blame. Treat the cause not the fallout.
It's probable that they both start these things. And you can deal with that on a case by case basis, fairly. Once they see that they are both being treated fairly, the escalation to conflict should start to diminish. But it won't be easy or quick. Too much has already happened for that.

TwinklyAmberSloth · 27/10/2026 10:04

@Isitmeanttobethishard that sounds really tough.

I'd be reminding them how privileged they are and that unless they can stop fighting, you will be removing every privilege.

Remove everything from their room except books. No tv. No Internet. And a basic diet too. A bland but nutritious meal - same every day. They will soon get bored.

My DD is quite nasty to her brother at times so she soon behaves once I take all her toys from her room. She earns then back by being kind.

EndorsingPRActice · 27/10/2026 10:05

No idea whether my 2 were worse or better than yours but they fought a lot. One thing that helped was keeping them entirely separate. One fight and one spent the evening in the dining room and one in the living room. Fortunately they had separate bedrooms. Next day, another fight, same but switch which room they were in. No let up at all and definitely no deep breathing exercises. Fight at weekend? Cancel a treat or trip or if it was in the car, turn around and go home and separate them for the rest of the morning, afternoon or evening. They improved a lot in less than a month.

60degreecycle · 27/10/2026 10:07

Your take on this seems to be them = bad, and us, parents = at a loss of how to fix them.

You as parents are the most important part of this dynamic, whether you want to hear that or not. You don't have broken children, that can be fixed with a punishment or a consequence, or a trick, and this certainly will not be improved by threatening them with a divorce and two separate houses. If this and similar is being thrown around even if in frustration, you're disregulating two children who can't regulate themselves, even further.

It's time to admit that you have unwittingly created a dynamic that you don't know how to get out of, that there is something going on behind this fighting that you don't know how to access and get some professional help from a family therapist.

ViciousCurrentBun · 27/10/2026 10:12

Myself and the sister close in age used to physically fight. We just didn’t like each other. She almost always started it. Her behaviour as an adult is shocking, ran off with older sisters husband. The entire family cut her off after Mother died.

But my Mother if we were found fighting used to really shout at us. She was the final boss as such and that ended any fight. The classic threat of I will knock your twos head together.

Any fighting they go in to their own rooms, they get excluded. No who started it rubbish or pleading for justice that’s the new rule. You don’t care who started it that’s what you tell them. Because it does take two.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 27/10/2026 10:23

NotAnotherScarf · 26/10/2026 23:03

Tomorrow morning I would get them sat down at a table and tell them that you are splitting up with your dh. That their constant fighting is making you ill. That they are not babies and should be able to get on or stay away from each other given they have their own bedroom. But given they can't do that, you are seeing a solicitor later to start divorce proceedings and they need to be prepared to talk to a judge in family court to discuss future living arrangements. Ignore the tears and the hyperventilating. Tell them that you've reached the end of your tether and cannot deal with their childishness anymore.

It's harsh but you've tried everything else. Hopefully it will open their eyes to the fact that their actions impact others

Seriously, don't do this. @NotAnotherScarf Absolutely appalling advice.

You don't EVER blame children like that for adult issues. 😡

BertieBotts · 27/10/2026 10:25

My DC are challenging so I have a few things I've learnt over the years.

Agree the Siblings Without Rivalry book is great. Fingers crossed it has some helpful stuff for you.

I would also definitely consider some kind of parent coaching/behavioural coaching if you can find someone nearby before you consider separation - it has to be cheaper.

One really important principle is that if the punishment isn't working, don't escalate the punishment/threat (I totally understand why you have done this; it feels logical) but look at where they are now vs where you want them to be (behaviour wise) and reduce the size of the step, then focus really intently on achieving that in between step. If it's still not working, make the step smaller.

This might be counterintuitive, because for example if they are currently physical with each other and you just want them to coexist peacefully, you might need to temporarily reward verbal aggression, as long as it does not escalate to physical. Or you mentioned name calling so perhaps a better example for you would be to reward if they manage to verbally spar without using name calling. This will sound really weird but if you look at positive dog training, it explains this all so much better than any parenting resources ever do. This technique in behaviourism, where you move closer to the wanted behaviour (in dogs and humans) by targeting something which is close to the unwanted behaviour is called shaping. So you can look up how to do shaping behaviourism. It will probably bring up more dog training results than parenting, but the principles are exactly the same.

For human children, rather than the instant reinforcement of a food type treat, what you can do is use a sort of points/token system where they have the ability to gain a certain number of points per day, or per period of the day (e.g. before school / after school, between meals for holidays/weekends) and points are lost for certain behaviours, but if they successfully do not do that behaviour, they can get the points. Then after the end of a week or so the amount of points remaining determines the level of some kind of reward. These could be individual pots or joint, depending on whether individual creates too much attempt to goad each other into losing points or joint creates too much fighting because they feel the other is sabotaging them. If you really want to evoke a sense of teamwork, have the adults also work on something which they can lose points for. One benefit of a points type system is that they very quickly have another chance to gain more points, but the other is that it is essentially separating it from you, which can help a lot. However in order to keep it separate, you do have to use it almost like a robot would - like a video game score. So establish what behaviours lose points in advance, and stick to that even if they end up finding what seems like a loophole or seems just as bad (e.g. they stop calling each other names but they say things like "I wish you would just XYZ" instead).

The other thing which is important is teaching them a replacement behaviour for what they're currently doing. Because trying to suppress a behaviour is REALLY REALLY HARD. Especially when it has an emotional root and/or is occurring when the person is in an elevated emotional state, and especially when the behaviour has been repeated umpteen times and received a response - imagine drawing a line in pencil and going over it many many many times and pressing hard. Eventually it gets really difficult to rub it out. But painting over it with tippex will work. It's similar for behaviour. Anything which happens repeatedly lays a trail in the brain which reinforces it and makes that pathway stronger. Anything which receives a response of attention, whether it is good (laughter) or bad (being told off) is reinforced, which means their brains regard it as an important, useful behaviour. But brains are plastic and they can learn new rules, it's just that you have to get to a point where the new behaviour is happening more frequently than the old behaviour in order for the older behaviour to fade. You've talked a lot about how their reactions are almost automatic - this is exactly right. They have fallen into habits where they automatically react, and you can't undo automatic habits with reasoning, empathy or talking. If you've ever driven a car abroad, you'll be familiar with how you try to get into the wrong side, smash your hand into the door when trying to change gear, etc. Automatic behaviours take time to overwrite. But if you moved to a country with left hand drive, after a while you'll stop doing these things.

DH and I were reflecting yesterday how we get this arguing and fighting to be seen by them as unacceptable as other behaviours - such as swearing etc. DS1 knows all the swear words and he has friends who swear a lot at school, but he knows it’s not ok. That has sunk in over the years, one way or another.

I think this is really interesting and a useful observation. My guess is that it's partially modelling. I would imagine that you and DH are not rude towards people outside the family and do not swear, but you have mentioned arguing back with DC. And partially that on some level you're accepting the fighting and rudeness. Not intentionally, but there is likely some different way that you respond to swearing that you don't respond to fighting/rudeness, or vice versa. Like perhaps swearing doesn't particularly get you escalated, whereas rudeness does. Or you immediately and firmly react to swearing whereas arguing/rudeness you start to try to solve the problem (engage with the communication) before you hit a point of wanting to shut it down.

IME, stopping arguing back was really gamechanging for myself with DC. Other posters have referred to this as "starving the oxygen" around those interactions and that is exactly right. I don't especially like Supernanny, but if you look up videos of this on youtube, she displays this really effectively - the parents often are engaging with their children in the argument phase and she will step in and say stop, come down to their level, tell them what to stop doing and then take them off to whatever time out spot she is doing in that programme. The best examples are usually in the first week after she stops observing and starts directing, and then the week where she leaves them to it and it all falls apart so she comes and dissects the video footage. The other place you can see what not engaging in the argument/starving it of attention looks like is any modern UK police type documentaries, especially the ones where a suspect is already in custody (Custody Hotel was a good one) although ignore the parts where someone ends up getting wrestled to the floor! I know both of these are quite extreme examples, but they are helpful IMO because they are pretty extreme. When we're faced with a person who is shouting at us and arguing, the automatic response is to revert into a more immature, escalated emotional state ourselves and so we will often automatically respond back in kind. But if you can rise above this and ignore it, it helps a lot.

What it tends to look like IRL is that DC starts shouting/complaining at me about, let's say, they have lost their shoes. Old me would have tried to start off firm and say something like "Why don't you look in the place you were yesterday?" they kick off because it's not really about the shoes, it's about how they have become escalated and have successfully latched on to me as an outlet. So they escalate, I escalate and start using an irritated, raised tone or even shouting back, about just wear your other shoes then, or if you put them away properly, they wouldn't be lost, or come on, just put on ANY shoes, we are late.

My oxygen-smothering response now is to take a deep breath, recognise the problem is emotional escalation, not lost shoes, and not engage in the lost shoe discussion - so I would make my voice deliberately low, slow, quiet-ish and say something like "Please don't shout at me." DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTION ABOUT THE SHOES. I find this really difficult to do, especially if I know the answer, and especially if it's a stressful situation like we're going to be late. It does get easier with practice (and it is worth being late a few times, also leaving more time when you know there is potential for explosion is helpful). The thing is that if DC calms down, they can almost always find the shoes or solve the problem for themselves fairly quickly, and/or they are receptive to my help. But if I engage in the emotionally-charged discussion, they remain emotionally escalated and they can't solve a problem like that. So it was a big gamechanger for me to reframe that whatever the problem was originally, unless there is some actual emergency like a bone is sticking out, the problem is NOT whatever they are kicking off about, the problem is that they are kicking off, and they need to emotionally downregulate first. Very little children might be dependent on you to co-regulate, but at 8 and 11, yours are not, and I tend to find TBH that trying to get them to see that the problem is emotional escalation does not help, it just escalates the situation further, so the best thing I can do is just to step away and refuse to engage in anything relating to solving the problem, and just repeat a broken record type thing of "I can help when you speak calmly" or "Stop shouting at me." Sometimes I go into another room and close/lock the door. Sometimes I just very firmly and obviously turn my attention to something else e.g. other DC, emptying dishwasher, packing car.

Now, yes, at first this is going to provoke WW3. This is called an extinction burst. You're no longer giving them the response they expect and they are going to push harder and harder expecting you to cave and give in because that has worked before. It's not necessarily a conscious choice by them - they may not know what else to do. But what they are experiencing is a feeling, and feelings pass on their own. Expecting this in advance makes it easier to hold firm. 99% of things are not an emergency - nothing terrible will happen if they can't find their shoes for a few minutes. My only suggestion for this and the worry about what the neighbours will think is to time it. I bet you it's all over in 20 minutes. And I bet you have about 3-5 times of 20 minute explosions before they start to understand it isn't going to work any more and you do actually find that they try asking calmly.

DeftGoldHedgehog · 27/10/2026 10:27

Livelovebehappy · 27/10/2026 09:28

The fact that your dh is doing ‘deep breathing’ to calm down their tantrum induced hyperventilating, suggests that some gentle parenting is going on here. As soon as a fight breaks out, send them immediately to their rooms for an hour or rest of the evening. No devices. Do this every single time. Be consistent. If this is done every time, they’re old enough to then understand that this is the consequence of their actions. Do they have a joint interest or activity they can bond over?

Oh no "gentle parenting".

I found that helped a lot more with arguments and tantrums than authoritarian parenting.

What I would do OP is praise them to high heaven whenever they are calm and get on and talk to them about it and what they are upset about, all when they are calm.

When it's in the heat of the moment it's about de-escalation and getting everyone to sleep.

LowlandLucky · 27/10/2026 10:43

This is where you need to lose your shit and i mean really lose it. Hugging and talking it out won't work. You absolutely need to take control and make them understand that you will not tolerate their behaviour. The minute they start nipping at each other you have to come down like a tonne of bricks.
They shouldn't be arguing over who sits where, but it is easy to sort, you be the parent and you assign seats. Arguing in the car? Simply stop the car and tell them both to get out, hopefully it will be torrential rain at the time, if you are close enough to home (i.e a mile or so) make them walk. If they can't sit at a table to eat a meal together then take them away from the table, one outside the front door and one outside the back to eat will sort them out. And keep doing it, it will only take a week.
Siblings don't always like each other but no doubt your boys will learn to live with each other. Just be the adult until they can be civil to each other.

CabbagePatchSquirrel · 27/10/2026 10:46

They're old enough to be told that they're annoying you. And if they annoy you, you'll annoy them back.

I'd tell them they can fight and bicker all they want, but they have to do it so that you don't hear it. If you hear it, then screens are going, treats are going, their stuff is going... And they're spending their time scrubbing bathrooms with old toothbrushes.

If they want to make family life annoying for you, then you'll make sure it's annoying for them too.

Everyone is entitled to some peace and quiet. And they may not realise but this includes you too.

Don't get into arguments about 'fairness', just tell them you want a peaceful house or their lives will suddenly become much more unpleasant.

Absobeautely · 27/10/2026 11:02

CabbagePatchSquirrel · 27/10/2026 10:46

They're old enough to be told that they're annoying you. And if they annoy you, you'll annoy them back.

I'd tell them they can fight and bicker all they want, but they have to do it so that you don't hear it. If you hear it, then screens are going, treats are going, their stuff is going... And they're spending their time scrubbing bathrooms with old toothbrushes.

If they want to make family life annoying for you, then you'll make sure it's annoying for them too.

Everyone is entitled to some peace and quiet. And they may not realise but this includes you too.

Don't get into arguments about 'fairness', just tell them you want a peaceful house or their lives will suddenly become much more unpleasant.

I agree with this post, OP sounds like it's inevitable that the boys will be really loud, but it's entirely optional.

Have you tried filming them when they're acting like dicks? If they notice and ask why, play it back so they can see how babyish they are, ask if they want it sent on to their school class chat/relatives or whatever.

PixiePun · 27/10/2026 11:07

Oooo OP I am so here with you on this. My Ds are the exact same as yours. It's utterly f**king draining. Same ages too and like you fine at School (minor bits but all the norm).I am too at the end of my tether and I have no answers but I'm here for any advice any PP may have too. Gentle parenting does not work in my house.

dottiedodah · 27/10/2026 11:08

Agree with DeathNote11 Exercise is key.A friend said small boys are like dogs need to be run each day to burn off excess energy! 6 hours over a week 0niy around a half hour a day in real terms.Our young GC do /rugby and football weekends and some sports most evenings as well. I dont think you should talk about splitting up either, as many children can feel its their fault if their parents break up. See if you can get a School big on sport as well.My DS School a few years back had PE each day for around 2 hours .Playing fields and single sex as well (state school)

askmenow · 27/10/2026 11:20

Createausername1970 · 26/10/2026 22:06

Print off some details of flats from Right Move and leave on the kitchen table.

☝️this is what I was going to suggest.

Be sure they are details of 2 bedroom flats in suss areas and if they ask…..it’s all you’ll be “able to afford” if you have to sell up!

And say they’ll have to move schools. Pull the rug from under them give them the clear repercussions of their nastiness.

I recall my sis and I used to fight. We had a playroom in the attic with pull down steps.
One day my mum heard the commotion and pushed up the steps locking us up there.

Sis was distraught. Being the elder I felt guilty and we ended up as allies, comforting each other.
Salutary lesson.