Reached the end of my tether

[Isitmeanttobethishard]

I’ve posted before about my DS fighting. I seriously can’t carry on like this. It’s been months, they fight relentlessly over everything. Calm approaches haven’t worked, big huge dressing downs haven’t worked. Taking away treats and screens hasn’t worked. It’s not just bickering, it escalates very quickly into screaming, shouting, name calling and hitting.

Tonight, after having to break up 7 fights, I lost it (it’s happened so many times over the last few months). They both went to bed sobbing, with no cuddles or stories, but it will carry on tomorrow morning.

Help. I’m seriously contemplating separating from my DH and taking a child each on rotation as we’re just not a happy family, I can’t live my life like this.

They need medical and psych evals right away. And maybe getting law enforcement involved if they keep fighting, to have a good talk with them? Maybe it would scare them a bit?
Meanwhile no privleges....they get nothing.

I have said this twice before - once being tonight and once at the end of the summer holidays when we got 2 minutes into a dog walk and they were fighting over letter B of the Boy/Girl/Fruit/Flower game - “he knew I wanted to say Freddie so said it first.” I kid you not. I grabbed them both by the arm and marched them home for the biggest telling off ever complete with saying DH and I will need to live in separate houses so we can separate them. I think they possibly didn’t fight for the rest of the day, or at least for a few hours. But it doesn’t last.

Ok, you’ve tried other strategies, are they trying to get you involved to tell the other off, is it an attention thing ‘he started it’ etc?

Try not getting involved, warn them, ‘If you fight with your brother you will get hurt, you can choose not to fight/argue/ shout etc. Then when they do fight don’t step in too quickly, let them try to resolve it, tell them they need to sort it out and that you are not interested, if one of them comes crying, comfort them briefly but hold them responsible, what could they have done differently, yes, they might still have major arguments but if you don’t step in trying to resolve it they might learn to do this themselves.

I would love to leave them to it as they must need to learn conflict resolution, but we live in a terraced house, paper thin walls, I can’t let my neighbours put up with it. It’s not fair. One side has a young baby.

You keep them separated. Send one to their room or to sit on the stairs whilst the other stays downstairs. Alternatate so neither feels victimised.

The worst times are in the car - we cannot do a short car journey without shouting and fighting.
One in the front and one in the back, or you sit in the bitch seat inbetween them.

And also when trying to do things as a family - watching TV together (arguments start over who sits where and escalate)
You tell them where they are sitting, they don't get to choose anymore. One adult is inbetween them. Any nonsense and one is sent out the room.

My two fought like cat and dogs and this was the only thing that worked. Once they reached older teens they became firm friends so it is possible their fighting will eventually stop.

Have you read Siblings Without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish? Highly recommend.

Wow really @WinterBlues26 ? We’ve tried one in the front of the car and it didn’t work, still fought. I get travel sick so can’t sit in the middle seat, DH is 6”4 so definitely can’t. They get sent to their rooms a lot.

Yes the TV thing is what happened today. DS1 told DS2 to shut up, when he was told off he immediately went for DS2. He’s told to go to his room, DS2 starts smirking. DS1 sees red - “stupid idiot”. Eventually got him to his room.

They can both kiss goodbye to the Traitors, DH and I have been saving them to watch together but that privilege has gone and we watched the latest episode once they were in bed!

I’m reading it right now! Early days though.

It's a bit odd that you're jumping to living separately, when you're still trying to do things like family walks and playing games. I would stop trying to make them co-operate with each other. If the fighting is driving you to the edge then you need to take drastic action. Don't try to play family games, don't go on family walks. If you're all watching TV, have firm rules about where everyone sits and what you watch.

Try to work out where the desire to fight is coming from. When my two were fighting like this, it was mostly because the eldest was getting a sort of energy from initiating conflict. Dealing with it meant removing all the oxygen from it - no reaction from me or from the sibling, just straight to her room at the first hint of any teasing. This really helped, as well as banning all activities that created conflict.

Print off some details of flats from Right Move and leave on the kitchen table.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My mum sat in the middle between me and my brother on every single car journey. We have a two year age gap. We stopped fighting around aged 15/13. Proper physical fights as well as arguing despite being boy and girl. We finally stopped because we were big and realised we'd do proper damage.

Doesn't help you. But you're not alone

Tomorrow morning I would get them sat down at a table and tell them that you are splitting up with your dh. That their constant fighting is making you ill. That they are not babies and should be able to get on or stay away from each other given they have their own bedroom. But given they can't do that, you are seeing a solicitor later to start divorce proceedings and they need to be prepared to talk to a judge in family court to discuss future living arrangements. Ignore the tears and the hyperventilating. Tell them that you've reached the end of your tether and cannot deal with their childishness anymore.

It's harsh but you've tried everything else. Hopefully it will open their eyes to the fact that their actions impact others

Put them in the garden and let them fight it out.

😂😂

Absolutely this.
If you can stand it, just let them fight it out. Sod the neighbours hearing.

My parents used to leave my little brothers to it. Never did much harm.

Would family therapy be worth a shot? Cheaper than changing living arrangements?

Also after they fight, when they've calmed down, do you talk about what happened and what they could have done differently? To use 'that made me feel' statements rather than 'you always' statements etc. I'm sure you have but thought I'd check. Also might be worth typing everything into chat gpt. It sounds like they have both got into a bit of a toxic pattern that might be difficult to break and they will both need to do work to break the habit and stop things escalating. Like role plays on how to walk away and calm down when someone is winding you up that they practice with you

I am one of multiple siblings. I physically faught with my 2 sisters right into our mid teens. My brothers did similar.
We are all extremely close as adults.

We had a car seat rota 🙂 because mine would fight over which seat they were sitting in. (3 of them). Now, they are grown up, I occasionally talk to them about the huge amount of fighting they did. They all say Mum, it wasn't anything, you just took it too seriously. Hmmm.

What are the meaningful consequences for their poor behaviour?

It sounds like you are waiting until it's at a point of no return so you need to be more proactive. If they start squabbling in the car then you stop the car and the instigator gets out and walks home. Either you or DH will have to walk home too and you don't chat/be friendly to them. Or take travel sickness pills. I don't understand how they can keep fighting by having one in back and one in the front. Use distraction techniques or ask questions, anything that takes their focus away from their sibling.

As pp said you stop having family games. If you have a family walk then you still separate them so walk in pairs with a big gap inbetween.

You said you have to physically escort them to their rooms as they keep fighting. Why the heck are you sending them up at the same time? That's asking for trouble.

It's tough, and it's soul destroying, but it's better than the alternative. You and DH are going to have to be on it like hawks and read their body language rather than waiting until they are in the zone. Stop letting them choose seats or food or journeys or tv programmes. You and DH decide and you TELL them.

They don't seem to realise that the adults are in charge in your house. Take charge, tell them where to sit in the car, in the living room, at the table, micromanage every minute of their day. If one of them starts anything at all, he's straight up to his room, no arguments. Don't discuss anything with them, tell them what is happening. Do not lose your cool.
One reason that they behave at school is that they know it's expected of them. Currently they don't know that at home.

Literally put them both in time-out (just facing a wall) for a minute for every year old they are. Ask them to apologise to you and each other once their time is up. Then rinse and repeat.

Don’t get into who is in the right or wrong, they both get punished every single time.

Time-out (just facing a wall, or tree if out for a walk) can be implemented anywhere and stick with it. Show them you are in charge. Eventually you’ll realise that they barely get sent to time-out.

Oh my god. Do not ever tell your small children that their behaviour is going to break up their family ever again. How could you? What an awful thing to say to a child, who relies on you for absolutely everything. Children need to feel safe and unconditionally loved, not so powerful and awful that they can cause a divorce and have to live apart from their sibling and other parent. I'm in disbelief that anyone thinks this course of action would produce anything other than a scared, sad and deeply unsettled child that's more likely than ever to deepen their behaviour to test whether this awful thing is really going to happen.

That being said, you've already recognised that everything you're doing is not having the effect you're desiring at all. So stop it all. You're blowing up over every small thing and they are getting the attention and stimulation and edges they are looking for. Be a calm pilot and repeatedly lead them into better behaviour. Some good advice here about reducing the opportunities for them to even get a fight going in the first place.

Stop flogging a dead horse with your own dramatic and overblown reactions. They are following your lead. Do the opposite of what you've been doing. Whisper when they shout. Be kind when they are being cruel. Bring them close when they are testing whether you'll send them away again. Be calm when they are expecting or pushing for fireworks. They are so young - they need true leadership and actual discipline in the realest sense from you, not to see you flinging them and yourself around and escalating ever further with hyperbolic threats.

This is the only reply really worth reading on thia thread tbh.