Women are the cause of Christmas being stressful....

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Women are to blame for making Christmas a stressful and expensive holiday.

It's women* who are doing all the planning, booking of trips to father Christmas, managing and booking expensive UK Lapland trips/visits to activity farm, booking light trails, making sure the elf delivers a North Pole Breakfast, sorting Christmas Eve boxes trips to the panto/nutcracker, sorting parties, making sure kids Nativity costumes done, doing the stupid elf in the shelf, writing letters etc

All rushing, trying to make everything perfect and everything a "memory"... And then complain it's all too much, toj stressful, too expensive

Nobody is holding a gun to their head.

We all know the kids would be perfectly happy with a few presents on the morning and able to eat chocolate for breakfast.

Nobody will stop loving you because you couldn't be fucking bothered to make bread sauce from scratch using homemade organic breadcrumbs.
If you didn't bother making a starter, who cares?

Nobody would care if the stupid Elf never arrived.

Live by this mantra "Those who matter, don't mind. those who mind, don't matter"

It's stressful because YOU make it stressful.
Just embrace your Inner Man** and stop making the effort.

*Not all women, my husband dies yada yada yada
** Not all men...blah blah blah

The pp clearly has children who would like a nice Christmas where the simplest elements aren't poorly thrown together last minute by a man incapable of basic human functioning (but only when it comes to organising something for others). Not only that, but as a man who presumably loves his wife and children, you'd think he might enjoy the opportunity to make them happy, instead of being selfish and incompetent.

You, it seems, don't have children? That's a rather different situation.

And good for you, being immune to patriarchy. How nice for you. I myself don't bother with that sort of thing unless I want to either (in fact, my husband does far more) but I remain aware that some women aren't as good at resisting social pressures, or may have far stronger social pressures placed upon them.

Sometimes it is. Sometimes it is good to also say , as out loud as possible, that it’s ok to drop the rope, at least for those who feel like they need permission and have only been exposed to “must be perfect.” . The martyrs will keep martyring, the no fucks will keep giving no fucks, those in the middle might actually drop some things and have a more enjoyable Christmas.

Thanks OP, I just realised I hadn't booked my Christmas shopping delivery!! Sainsbury's still had some good slots especially in the 'savers' delivery calendar.

That's true. But I think you can tell women that everyone will still have a lovely day if they keep things simple and have their partners actually do half the workload (or more), without framing it as all women's fault, and saying a man deliberately half-arsing it is perfectly fine.

Despite a few side eyes and groans from the wider family, the usual host (me) decided after Mum and Dad died to feck off to Andalucia for the entire Christmas and New year (I've no kids).

Best thing I ever did and will never spend another Christmas at home if I can help it!

I was also one of those women who tried to do it all. Not any more.

I don't think people make extra effort at Christmas because they are worried people will stop loving them.

They do it because they want to make it as special as they can. Kids (and adults) do know when their families go the extra mile. Of course it's not compulsory, but it's not meaningless, either.

No. Does having packet stuffing instead of a home made sausage meat and cranberry one ruin Christmas? No.No. Does having packet stuffing instead of a home made sausage meat and cranberry one ruin Christmas? No.

I have that attitude as remember my parenst arguging in the kitchen - and they weren't hosting wider family usually either.

I did read a thread on here about a guest finding out there wasn't going to be any bread sauce as no-one liked it - and the chaos they then caused in the cooking in kitchen and then how bread sauce wasn't touched. I remember thinking could see MIL doing that "saving" christmas meal and ignoring rest of the meal preparation because she pull similar round other events birthdays/easter and it's more about power dynamics than actual food.

I wonder how much stress is just underlying frictions finding a stage.

I stopped trying to make DC birtdhay cakes as routine as MI and DMum were off about it and it was an extra task - they aslo both bought birthday cakes and insisted that was the cake - so there was three cakes and I thought fuck this and just bought them - easier not to care then and less stress around other stuff to organise. Couldn't not buy one becuase that would be year nether woud bother. Did make a few only allowed when siblings helped - even now tend to buy and make nice cakes rest of the year.

I like your attitude to life .

I think you're purporting that most people are falling into this "stressed and making it all perfect at the cost of your bank balance and mental health."

Whereas most people I know, really enjoy the build up and the hosting of Christmas. I really enjoy participating in an international card exchange, and have made penpals all over the world who we send cards and stories/recipes too. Would my husband bother? Doubt it. Does it mean I'm stressed and pressured into doing it? Not at all.

I like watching the "look what I've put away ok October" reels on FB, mainly because it's random junk that makes me smile, and no one is really buying. I think that's where you've got the disconnect. Most of us roll our eyes at this, and the North Pole tat breakfasts etc. Not seeing them on social media and thinking "boy, that looks like something that's now going to happen in my house." Every now and again, I'll see something and make a note that one of the DC might like the thing being advertised, which makes it easier tbh, not harder.

You'll always get people who get into debt and live beyond their means. It won't just be Christmas that does it for them.

I don't know anyone irl whose Christmas represents anything from the stream of influencers yapping on. You should remember, that's not real life for them any more than it is for us. It's their business to get followers.

Me too!!!

Im ancient, and after divorcing and becoming an empty nester Ive tried to be this way. When the kids were at home I always wanted to be the party house, where everyone came to. As ive gotten older I absolutely do NOT want to be that. When I bought my own place 3 years ago I just stopped hosting. No one died, we go out to restaurants now or others host. Im a shit cook, and I just dont want to do it. When I see others hosting I wonder why they bother - I wonder why I ever bothered. Its not fun - you are running around exhausted and never actually getting a moment to chat to people yourself.

Restaurants exist for a reason..

Then - presuming they’ve grown up in the UK where we have very high levels of personal freedom - they’ve only got themselves to blame. I’ve no sympathy for people with no backbone.

When my children were small and my PIL came for Xmas every year I hated Christmas. I used to last until about 3pm, take a sleeping tablet and go to bed. It was just an insane and stressful time. For instance the expectation was that each of my children wrote a Xmas card to each relative. Three cards for grandma, three cards for grandad, three cards for old aunty whatever, three cards for old uncle who ever. Anyway I ditched all that as soon as possible and now as an old person just do the bits I like. Lovely food, time off work, good books to read. I agree to a certain extent that we make our own difficulties, huge amount of expectations around Christmas when really it's just a couple of days.

Yes, your lack of sympathy for women who feel stressed or pressured over Christmas is quite clear, although I'm not sure what purpose you think it serves.

(I can only presume you also have no sympathy for women in abusive relationships, given they have no backbone if they don't just leave 🙄)

My husband did the chriatmas food shop the year I had Covid. Oh my gosh! Never again. We had enough for Christmas dinner and Boxing Day and that was it. No cheese board, no lovely snacks and treats. I doubt we’d have a tree or presents if I left it all to him. The kids prefer my Christmas. I don’t go overboard with stuff though. No Christmas cushions , Xmas eve box, matching pjs etc

No elf is ever crossing my door!

The only thing I find stressful about Christmas is family dynamics and working out who's going to where.

Everything else I'm chilled about. Kids stockings are easy, presents are generally bought on black Friday and crucially I dont do it all! I enjoy cooking so that one is straightforward and I book a delivery slot. I don't spend hours in the kitchen as I prep in chunks then it's done.

We do stick to a budget though with Christmas and don't spend loads.

The only Christmas traditions we do is going to choose a tree which we cut down and a fun santa workshop which I don't mind paying for as the kids make something.

Trips to see Santa, writing letters, and light trails were all very much on the go 30 years ago. How much does it cost to write a letter?

My dad was the first to introduce Elf on the Shelf and Christmas Eve boxes for my nephew. Not my mother or sister. He also does all of us a handmade advent calendar every year.

How much does it cost to write a letter?

I image it's organising it all more it's another thing to sort.

TBH the cost of postage has dramatically cut down the number of christmas cards we have to send every year which is another 5 minute task or series of tasks disappearing and honestly do not miss it.

Are you seriously comparing entirely manufactured Christmas consumerism and expectations to an abusive relationship?

On that we absolutely agree. I actually have a lot of sympathy for women rushed off their feet and stressed trying to sort it all. I know I don’t come across like that, but I do. Especially when they’re looking at improving things, doing less, changing things to suit them , delegating etc. Sometimes it turns out that the relationship is an even bigger issue , which makes me even more sympathetic because it’s hard (and sometimes terrifying)to actually sort that .

Which is why it enrages me when they get the emotional blackmail and shaming . “Do it for the kids”, “if you want it done right do it yourself “, “well of course you can’t expect him to do x”, , “why didn’t you make 73 lists starting in January and hand reared your pig” or “are you seriously going to break up the family over stuffing?”. It’s never about the fucking stuffing.

Or when they say I’m not doing x anymore and they get told what a shitty mother/daughter/wife they are and that they absolutely must.

Exactly this. DH and I actually both hate Xmas due to bad childhood memories (his a lot worse than mine).
When the kids were little we had to pretend we both didn’t hate Xmas. Because that wouldn’t be fair to small children.
Now that we are well into the teen years, we don’t need to pretend anymore and can just do whatever we feel like doing (or not).

The women enjoying it aren't the ones complaining it's stressful... But, many many women do find it all stressful

I agree with you to some extent. Certain efforts need to be made and should be made. But the stress and panic is often created by women and other women become the victims of it. I absolutely hate the shops but they are doing what makes them money. I can't imagine men stocking up on boxes of chocs or bits in October, if women stopped buying this stuff so early the shops wouldn't stock them or display them. Women buy all the tat for Christmas and Halloween. Women support expensive birthday cards. Women try to impress each other and crave perfection. It's also true of the fashion or beauty industry, all these society pressures on young women to look a particular way come from women.

I agree OP. If a poster were to say her husband wanted to organise some massive, catered family event and she wasn't interested but he was nagging at her to help, well we know what the responses would be.

Pre-child neither DH or I were much bothered by Christmas. So we would either work and get a takeaway in the evening or go abroad.

Now we have a child our Christmases are still small. I don't like the consumerism aspect of it and refuse to be a martyr. DH helps but I doubt he would do 50 percent if I wanted to do a big OTT Christmas, and why should he?

PIL and a few other family members have had a moan previously but I just don't care. They wouldn't be willing to put themselves out for us.

No, I'm extrapolating from what you've said, about having no sympathy for people who don't have the strength to overcome social and familial pressures, in order to protect their own well-being.

I absolutely agree!