To believe that Parents must have the right to tell their children they are not “in the wrong body” and children cant be “transgender”?

[DoubleMM]

The government wants to bring in a law that threatens anyone including parents with up to five years in prison for denying a child’s or an adult’s “transgender identity” -. The draft Bill is in Committee stage. Labour have committed to making it law. Surely this is just bringing back the Scottish Parliament’s vote that everyone has to agree? That men are women if they say they are? This time parents are in the firing line if they dont agree to their child being “transed” at school or elsewhere? The Bill proposes that the courts should be able to make an order to enforce compliance on parents. Surely this can’t be allowed to go through without a fight?

Creating an argument no one said so you can argue about it is called a strawman. Weird how pointing out they're a GC network on a thread where it's relevant has been strawmanned to:

• saying they shouldn't be listened to
• saying they aren't allowed to call themselves Gay Mens Network

-Saying they need a disclaimer in front of their name

Its not a coincidence that the bill is written and supported by people that have problems with clearly defined definitions.

It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.

Exactly.
Charities have been forced to adopt the gender identity position or rise lost their funding.
This is not evidence that there’s genuine belief. People want to keep their jobs.
The only way to do that in the public & charity sectors is to adhere to gender ideology.
This act will only deepen the culture of fear and lack of free speech in NGOs.

Absolute rubbish.
If you cannot understand why I am against members of the opposite sex in single sex spaces, then it is you who really needs to ask why you aren't as well.

There is so much out there, you don't even have to search for it. Just open up a newspaper and you'll see another of those things that'll never happen, happen.

If more women pulled down their hooded cloaks, got off their knees and understood what is happening to our safety, our language, our rights, the world would be a better place for our daughters.

This

I don't, personally, have any problem with the thought of a man who is small female sized, looks pretty much like a woman and has been taking cross sex hormones from puberty being in a changing room with me. I don't think he should be there, because other women don't want him there and it's not my choice to make.

BUT

Once one man is entitled to use female facilities without challenge, then NO man can be challenged.

And that then includes a brick shithouse of a man who thinks he's a woman, who I wouldn't want to change next to.

But it gets worse.

It also includes the late onset transitioners, many of who are autogynephiles who have transitioned precisely because it's sexually stimulating to them to think of themselves as a woman. (Those guys can sometimes be recognised by masturbating in female changing cubicles and taking selfies of their clothed erections in female changing rooms.)

And then finally.

There are the heterosexual men who want to harass and assault women, who nobody would have any right to challenge until after they start the harassment and assault.

And THAT is why that first, harmless, lovely person who only wants to be allowed to live quietly as a woman cannot legally be allowed to use a women only space.

And that is also why we cannot accept all sexualities to be equivalent and permissible. Homosexuality is nothing to do with anybody else, unless you are interested in a sexual relationship. In that respect, the expression of homosexuality between consenting partners is no different to the expression of heterosexuality between consenting partners. But the expression of ‘sexualities’ such as paedophilia and autogynephilia depend upon the participation of people who are unable or unwilling to give their consent. That is why they cannot be acceptable.

I am not convinced that paedophilia and autigynephilia are sexualities, and not fetishes or kinks. The place for fetishes and kinks is in private between consenting adults.

Exactly.

This is not about allowing the most unthreatening, inoffensive man you know into women’s spaces.

This is about allowing ALL men who fancy it into women’s spaces. Including those who have the most unsavoury motives for wanting access.

Please look at my earlier replies. My child 'was trans' for four years, then wasn't. We managed the situation with love and care, but our insistance on no medical intervention could be seen by some kids as 'harmful' or 'psychologically distressing'. Parents should be able to protect their children from the harmful trans ideology without facing government interference.

Good God no! Not based on their very recent track record.

Adults are allowed to modify their bodies in lots of way. Children generally are not, and should not be, allowed to make life changing and irreparable changes to their healthy bodies because they lack the maturity to understand the long-term consequences.

I get what you're saying - no child should be allowed to have anything physical to change their sex until 18

@PollyBell people cannot change sex.
It's biologically impossible.

The concept that ‘people shouldn’t be forced to live in a body that feels wrong to them’ is bizarre. There are people who believe that their leg is not theirs. This is recognised as a mental health condition and the treatment is therapy and medication, not amputation of the limb that distresses them. Why is the desire to amputate breasts or penises not treated the same way? Why is it unacceptable to amputate a man’s sexual organs to fulfil his desire to be a eunuch, but acceptable if his desire is to be a ‘woman’? In both cases their body feels wrong to them and they want to change it to more closely resemble what they think will feel right. Bizarrely, the unacceptable one, eunuch-making, actually achieves the change the man desired, whereas the ‘acceptable’ one does not achieve the change he desired as he remains a man.

It is all incoherent, illogical, often unsuccessful, and often irreversible. Of course we must safeguard people from this, all people, not just our children. Of course we must be allowed to question and challenge the thought processes and beliefs that might lead to it.

MrsShawnHatosy · 23/10/2026 00:30
Most trans people acknowledge their birth sex and don’t believe they can literally change sex and are happy to refer to themselves as transwomen/men. They just want to live as the other sex. If you really cannot stand the thought of that then you need to ask yourself why.

I know that its been asked but

What does

They just want to live as the other sex

Actually mean?

How is this defined without returning to stereotypes?

Fantastic post 👏

Stonewall's ludicrous "research" supporting its campaign to bring in a Blasphemy Law by the backdoor via the Conversion Practices Draft Bill.

Have a tenth of all gay people really had an exorcism?

"According to research commissioned by Stonewall, clerics are conducting one LGBTQ+ exorcism for every two religious wedding ceremony they perform. This shocking finding is the logical conclusion of Stonewall’s ‘Culture Wars and Hate’ survey which found that 10 per cent of LGBTQ+ people in the UK have experienced an exorcism which aimed to change their gender or sexual orientation.

At first glance, this may seem to contradict the government’s National LGBT Survey which found in 2017 that only 2 per cent of LGBT people had undergone conversion practices. Perhaps there has been a recent boom in exorcisms?"

"The more you dig into the data, the more remarkable it seems. While most of us remained at home, it seems there was no let-up for exorcists during lockdown. The number of religious wedding ceremonies halved in 2019-2020 compared with 2018-2018, but the Stonewall data reveals no drop in the number of exorcisms over the same period."

"Is it plausible that 30 per cent of trans people have been exorcised in a country that, until extremely recently, supported an entirely affirmative approach to transgender medicine, and where the police might come knocking if you express the wrong views about gender-identity on social media?"

"Having eliminated technical deficiencies in the survey, the most likely explanation of Stonewall’s findings seems to be that respondents were either fibbing or fantasising.

Nobody is under oath when they take part in a survey. Since the 2017 National LGBT survey, legislation to ban conversion therapy has been at the top of Stonewall’s political agenda. Some respondents may have felt, quite understandably, that it was more important to give a response that would help promote a ban than give a response that was strictly accurate. The political campaigning of LGBT activists may have fomented a moral panic within their own community. This would explain the dramatic change in reports of conversion therapy over such a short time.

If this conjecture is correct, one would expect the highest rates of exorcisms to be found among the most politically active: specifically, the young, the trans and the metropolitan. The data appear consistent with this theory. For example, 0.5 per cent of those aged 50+ claim to have experienced an exorcism compared to 16 per cent of 18–24-year-olds. The rate of exorcisms in London is double that of the country as a whole.

Given Stonewall’s fall from grace over recent years, few will be surprised to see them promoting bogus statistics. What is more disturbing is that the BBC, who should be striving for impartiality, parroted their research without asking the most basic questions. Stonewall’s statistical illiteracy is not a particularly well-kept secret, and journalists should be aware that sometimes surveys encourage motivated answers. Perhaps BBC bosses should start asking some awkward questions to show their journalists how it is done."

Full Spectator archived:
https://archive.ph/3wDIf

He wont be small and woman sized he'll be even taller than he would naturally have been due to the effects of the chemical castration from the puberty blockers (a side effect that was known about atleast as far back as castrata).
The myth of a petite passing male has been pushed for years but doesn't exist. When you see these men in real life or in candid photos that haven't been filtered or staged you can always tell that they are male.

The myth of a petite passing male has been pushed for years but doesn't exist.

To be fair, it is not a myth but it is so rare that Imdunfer is highly unlikely to encounter "a man who is small female sized, looks pretty much like a woman and has been taking cross sex hormones from puberty" in a changing room, or anywhere else.

She is rather more likely to encounter a delusional man who thinks that that description applies to him.

he'll be even taller than he would naturally have been due to the effects of the chemical castration from the puberty blockers (a side effect that was known about at least as far back as castrata).

Adult males who as children were put on puberty blockers, castrated or not, then put on oestrogen have a different outcome to castrati in terms of height. This is due to the influence of oestrogen in preventing skeletal elongation beyond what would have been their natural height. So if being "female sized" height is in their genes then that will stay the same.

What I find strange is what seems to be a suggestion (not yours) that short men are more like women than they are like tall men or average height men. That is, if I have understood correctly the basis of Imdunfer's tolerance for sharing a changing room with a short man.

It may be less likely but it isn't impossible and the whole force of the argument rests around there being one and it not being safe to allow him access because you couldn't then keep out any man.

So I'm not sure what you've quarrelled with that particular point for!

I suggest watching the debate this Thursday 29th from midday on Parliament TV to clarify what is being proposed. Imo if this toxic bill goes ahead the family unit will be hugely harmed, child safeguarding will go out the window even more than it has already, and the rights of women & girls will be destroyed. It’s self ID by the back door

Sex Matters have put the details of Thursday’s debate up on their website

RhannionKPSS you need to give us links please, not just clues like we are on a Treasure Hunt 😂 🙏

On which point . . . at least one Journalist has noticed this thread!

Mumsnet users fear bill will convert them into crims
Four in five in a Mumsnet poll agreed parents should have the right to tell children they are not “in the wrong body”, after a post warned the draft law could criminalise such conversations

https://www.terftimes.com/p/mumsnet-users-fear-bill-will-convert-them-into-crims/

On X: x.com/TERF_Times/status/2114722585279955000

I'm famous 🤣🤣🤣