To believe that Parents must have the right to tell their children they are not “in the wrong body” and children cant be “transgender”?

[DoubleMM]

The government wants to bring in a law that threatens anyone including parents with up to five years in prison for denying a child’s or an adult’s “transgender identity” -. The draft Bill is in Committee stage. Labour have committed to making it law. Surely this is just bringing back the Scottish Parliament’s vote that everyone has to agree? That men are women if they say they are? This time parents are in the firing line if they dont agree to their child being “transed” at school or elsewhere? The Bill proposes that the courts should be able to make an order to enforce compliance on parents. Surely this can’t be allowed to go through without a fight?

Legislation does work like 'this is what IS illegal' and when your only test is 'feeling' based not mesaurement based then anything can be weaponised if you catch the eye of someone who wants to punish you for something.

So it is very important to definitely say what is and is not 'criminal' when it comes to random 'feelings' that are not measureable but may end in someone in jail for it.

Of course, only a government that is not in hock to the unions and activists would even consider 'defining the terms' of the new legislation. For Labour, the inability to nail jelly to a wall is the feature not the bug.

I was just having a chat with a friend of mine off the back of this thread.

I said upthread that my dd is 14 and is pretty sure she is a lesbian. Great, that’s all good.

But she goes to an all girls school which is shocking in its views on trans issues. As in, they almost seem to push it.

My dd has always dressed in a more male way, since she was very small and could voice an opinion on clothing. She just prefers to dress that way. Lots of gay women prefer to dress that way. Lots of straight women prefer to dress that way (I do too, actually).

But she had said so many of the girls at her school go on about her maybe being trans.

Dd is not. She knows she’s not. She has said time and time again that she’s a girl/woman, she likes being a woman. She doesn’t believe in more than two genders and doesn’t believe you can change gender/ sex whatever (I am tired I can’t keep up with all the bullshit but you know what I mean), but my God, she keeps her mouth shut about that at school abs just nods along or she knows there will be trouble.

My point is, what the fuck is wrong with being gay?

Why does it seem like if an adolescent says they think they are gay, why does everyone seem to want to lead them down the trans path instead? I find it maddening.

Why can’t my daughter just be a lesbian who is happy with being a woman?

From the Gay Men's Network response, linked above:

Conclusion

199. Criminal statutes are serious pieces of legislation with profound effects. They should not be a vehicle for ideological point scoring, and they should not be on the statute books where they risk over criminalisation, serious interference with family life and the chilling of free speech.

200. There is no cogent evidence that conversion practices are widespread or a pressing issue in this country. Such surveys and statistics as have been cited are dubious and produced by self-serving actors with ideological prejudices. Even if they were widespread, it is unclear why this statute, with its relatively low maximum sentence of five years, would be a better prosecutorial response than offences that apply to everyone and carry higher maximum sentences. Gay men and lesbians are better protected by the law as it stands.

201. If this legislation passes parents will be arrested and prosecuted for conduct that would normally be considered part of family life. No criminal statute should leave such a legacy.

202. The wider cause of gay rights is not well served by unnecessary and brutal statutes with poor definitions and no statutory defences. This Bill is an example of ideological overreach; it is not a serious attempt to craft focused, well-targeted criminal law to address an identifiable and clearly defined problem.

© 2026 Gay Men’s Network September 2026

They haven't gone into the loosening and damaging of child safeguarding aspects, but that's another area of concern.

Some, vanishingly rare, people have a disorder affecting how their sexed bodies developed. They are male with a difference in their development or female with a developmental difference. There is no new sex. Or an in-between sex. Just abnormalities in how a body has developed. Exceptions which prove the rule. We don’t need to reorder the world and how we interpret and understand it.

Exactly, perfectly put.

It’s not false. The trans industry is trying to link
(a) sensible and necessary counselling for people whose mental health issues are pushing them towards harmful and unnecessary drugs and surgery
with
(b) abusive ‘therapies’ aimed at forcing gay people to live as heterosexuals.

Being gay does not harm you.
Trying to change sex does.

My inclination would be to keep your head and your adult line. Any child denied something they believe they need, deserve, desire will react like you’ve mortally wounded them. Part of the job of being a parent is navigating through it.

How about you give us an example of “conversion therapy” reported in the report? And we can assess whether new specific legislation is necessary or if it’s already covered.

We have no idea how the threshold will. We interpreted in the future , I believe though if it is passed then gradually the threshold will change and parents will be prosecuted.

So you believe in people being forced to live in a body that feels wrong to them? What if they’ve had loads of therapy to feel otherwise and nothing has worked?

It’s their body, it’s not possible to live in a different one.

Nicely side stepped. Do you believe adults should not be allowed to transition, that that right should be taken away from them?

"Being forced to live" is strange and concerning phrase.

I think i do see parallels with the aggressive pushing of the assisted dying bill, specifically in the context of mental health issues.

In the good old days, we used to try and prevent self harm and suicide. Now, depending on the context, it seems to be celebrated and you're a bigot for having concerns.

Because a lot of child-transition practices are basically facilitating self-harm. Allowing a child to harm their body through drugs or surgery, because they are unhappy with the way their body currently is, is enabling self-harm.

I’m talking about adults. I agree that children should not be allowed to transition. So do you think adults should not have the right to transition?

Chopping off body parts is NOT healthcare! If someone is distressed, that can be unpicked. "Why don't you think you are 'man enough'/'woman enough'? There's no RIGHT way to be a man or a woman. Wear what you like, but don't insist others call you something you're not. It's bascially like Halloween. My daughter was so excited if she 'passed' when out. (She didn't really.) It's adding frisson to every day: get dressed, try to 'act like the opposite sex', hopefully people nod along with it, and if they do, you win! Like a little challenge for each day, a reason to do things, and gives you endorphins if your costume works. (Very enticing for AUD/ADHD kids/adults). It is not reality.

In reality, girls and women on T suffer extreme problems, including incontinence, painful uterine cramps (many doctors tell them the only 'cure' is hysterectomy, but the real cure is, STOP TAKING POISON!)

For ‘extensive research’ ready - a few surveys were done with self selective respondents where most conversion practices were actually family disagreements such as misgendering.

£360,000 was paid by the government to Galop (an LGBT anti-violence charity) to set up a helpline for LGBT+. The government expected 10,000 calls a year reporting instances of conversion therapy.

A total of 51 callers said they had been subject to a form of conversion practice. Most were the result of tensions between parents and children. It’s unlikely any could be considered abusive,

All other surveys e.g by Stonewall etc. followed the same pattern

Abusive conversion practices are literally unknown in this country nowadays.

Please read my comments.

No, I'm saying this isn't an area for the law to dictate either way. The law is a blunt instrument. It is only one political movement that misuses the law in this way, trying to legislate control over aspects of people's lives that they shouldn't.

Preferring relationships with the same gender/sex is not criminal, and should never have been for males. It is how that person feels and hopefully is happy about it. To me it is all about being a loved person, which is what we all want.

In my own personal view you cannot change your biological sex. That is what you are born with and no amount of surgical interventions will change that. If someone is born without obvious genital sex organs that is an entirely different situation and the surgeon has to make a decision along with the baby's parents.

Disapproving of something (that doesn't quite meet the threshold for abuse) and wishing to ban it are two very different things and I think some people just don't get that.

So many parenting practices i disapprove of. Leaving babies to cry it out. Parentifying older siblings. Over-pushing for academic success. Some of these can be taken too far and cross the line to abuse - the law can deal with it then. If it doesn't reach that threshold, the law should leave those parents alone, and we tackle it by education, campaigning, etc.

Edit - and yes, i disapprove greatly of parents who encourage their child to think they're the opposite sex. But if it doesn't meet the threshold for abuse, the law should leave alone, i don't want to ban it.

What do you mean by transition?
No one changes sex.

I agree with JKR on this one - "I’ve always believed that adults with intractable gender dysphoria may only find peace after surgery and taking hormones"

And under this law, the parents of some children will be subject to prosecution for doing just that.

Feeling desperately sorry for a group of people and wishing to make a gesture of perceived 'kindness' towards them by indulging a political wish is no basis for legislation.

This will lead to an unholy mess. It is easily forseeable. And it is being pushed by a political lobby that is very aware of what it is doing. Enabling it without critical thinking or proper scrutiny because of sentiment is a very, very bad idea.

We are each born into our own body - it doesn't belong to anyone else, how can anyone be born in the wrong body? It doesn't make sense, if you born in the wrong body you would be someelse. Much of the talk around this subject is nonsense.

We are all forced to live in our bodies. It's literally our only choice.

And bearing in mind suicidality goes UP after so called 'transition', no this is not a solution to people who feel they have the 'wrong bodies'.