To cancel holiday because of DS’s behaviour?

[pageknight19]

We are supposed to be going away next week and I’m seriously considering cancelling it because of my youngest DS (14). DH thinks I’m being ridiculous and that the only people who will suffer are the rest of us but I feel like we’re rewarding him for behaving like this.

DS is our youngest by quite a long way, his brothers are 34, 32 and 30. They’re all living independently now and the oldest has a little boy of his own. We are comfortable financially and DS has always had opportunities his brothers had, although I do wonder if we’ve been softer on him because he’s the baby. DH says we haven’t.

He’s at a private school and things have been getting progressively worse over the last couple of years. He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged. He’s also been caught vaping more than once and we’ve found out he’s been drinking with other teenagers. I don’t mean he’s having the odd sip at a family gathering, he’s been drinking when he’s been out with friends and lying about it afterwards. Whenever we talk to him about his behaviour or his future, he shrugs. We’ve had meetings with the school and have been told more than once that his attitude needs to change. We’ve tried consequences at home but nothing seems to make much difference for long.

On Friday before half term we had a meeting and were told he was unlikely to be asked back after the holidays. The latest incident involved a row with another boy which got physical, and then DS swore at a member of staff and refused to go with them when they tried to remove him. The school hasn’t formally expelled him at this point but they’ve made it pretty clear that his place is hanging by a thread and we’re supposed to have further discussions about what happens next.

The thing is we have a holiday booked for next week which was arranged months ago. DS knows what’s happened but seems completely unbothered by it. I am absolutely furious that he doesn’t seem to understand the seriousness of the situation. I’m worrying about finding him another school and what happens if nobody wants him, while he’s carrying on as normal. If you try to talk to him about it, he just says he doesn’t want to go to university anyway, as if the only possible consequence is whether he gets into university.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences. DH says it’s too late for that now and all we’d be doing is punishing ourselves and the other boys. He says we can’t spend the next few years cancelling everything because DS has done something wrong and that the holiday was booked and paid for before any of this happened.

I know cancelling a holiday won’t magically sort out his behaviour. But part of me thinks if we just carry on as normal he’ll assume he can do whatever he likes and nothing will change.

WIBU to cancel the holiday? Or would I just be punishing the rest of the family for something that isn’t their fault?

@pageknight19 He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged.

Clearly not very bright then.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences.

You should know that you should be cancelling the holiday without having to ask the internet.

Unfortunately this simply won’t work. He will laugh if his family attempt an intervention

This is really informative. Thank you so much for sharing.

About the alcohol, I would seriously try getting him to watch Louis Theroux's documentary about people living with alcohol addiction. It's very hard-hitting. You can find it on YouTube. Just tried to find it for you but got the spinning wheel.

In terms of the other things you mentioned, he sounds really quite disturbed. Maybe call the GP and see what options there are for starting some kind of MH treatment? Your son surely cannot be happy. And he's being so self-destructive. Explain to him that these years are the time to put effort into his future, and he'll regret it later if he doesn't. (I'm sure you've done that, though!)

His change of behaviour, and the extent of it, is odd. It makes me wonder if something dodgy happened to him, if you know what I mean. Maybe at school. Sounds like it would explain a lot.

I would go ahead with the holiday. Sounds like it wouldn't make much difference with him either way, and the rest of the family deserve their break.

No interest in why he feels the need to go to a city and drink at 14? That is so far outside the norm surely, are you not wondering why? Drinking is attractive because it numbs feelings. No doubt he has big ones and no one seems to be arsed to ask about them or help him deal with them.

I would also say ADHD, sounds like the school have spectacularly failed to pick it up. Poor kid is probably spending all his energy masking and doesn't know which way is up by this point. Get him assessed.

How is a 14 year old able to spend all this time heading off to the city and drink? And why did you give him £150 a month, just making him a target. So the older boys got that but they had each other to look out for them. He doesn't sound spoilt, he sounds neglected in the ways that matter.

I wasn't suggesting state school as a punishment. Just thought he needs full parental supervision to try and get him back on track before he gets any older and is impossible to manage.

Can he stay with one of his brothers and you go together.? He's going through a stage but his behaviour cannot be tolerated. If possible you should be able to enjoy the break. He knows exactely what's happening here. Being forced to go to a different school should also be a cold hard shock that he has to play ball for a couple of years or face more consequences.

You flew out of England the day after he had been in Birmingham drinking at age 13? And all both his parents did about that, is your husband went to have a chat with him?

OP, you've mentioned that he doesn't seem to care about anything. Depression, caused by hormones creating havoc with his brain? I do think some people's brains are more sensitive to hormones than others. We can see that in the huge variation of effects that periods have on women.

I've not read the full thread but I don't understand why your older sons can't go on holiday without you, your DH and your DS

To be honest I would be spending the week looking for a new school

He won’t care about the holiday. If you stay at home he’ll just spend more time with his mates.

You need to think less reflexively about what a suitable deterrent would be.

I agree with your DH that to cancel the holiday will have little to no effect on your son's attitude or behaviour and would just unnecessarily punish others who would be losing out on what has probably been a much looked forward to holiday, not to mention there could be a substantial financial loss? 🙁
Obviously you could confiscate his phone and any other electronics while away bearing in mind that would mean almost certainly putting up with a very disgruntled, moody and possibly vocally unpleasant young man while you're trying to enjoy yourself and/or relax so you will have to decide on that issue.
Either before you go or when you get there, take the opportunity to explain to your son the reasons for not cancelling but remind him that he should consider himself lucky to be still going under the circumstances...tell him that when you return home all the issues will be faced and dealt with, that the time has come for things to change for his and everyone else's sake and, up to a point, it's up to him to decide how he wants things to go but they most definitely CANNOT and will not go on as they are...he needs to have some 'food for thought' while he is away! 🙄
I would say that this is a story 'old as time' relative to teenage boys and it doesn't mean that there won't be a good outcome so I hope that you can work things out for your sake but most importantly for your son of course...perhaps some professional advice would help point you and him in the right direction, maybe the school isn't the right fit for him even if it was for his brothers, it was quite a while since they were there after all and it's a vastly different world now!
Good luck, try and enjoy the holiday and take advantage of being all together as a family? 😊

You don't know that that's what his reaction will be. It might be. But equally he might be shocked to hear that everyone thinks he's fucking up his life. If it were my son, I'd try anything.

I think this is fantastic advice. If not boxing then something similar, like Karate. I know it sounds counter intuitive, especially if he’s tried to hit your DH before, but I’ve seen so many children, right up to late teens, absolutely bloom in these places. It gives them something to focus on. It channels that rage out in a safe way. More importantly, it teaches them discipline, respect and confidence.

I think that either he’s struggling massively and he’s masking it with bad behaviour, or he’s genuinely being a bit of a little sod. In which case, the time for cancelling holidays was probably a good ten years ago. If he’s not willing to open up to his family, then you’ve got nothing to lose by trying boxing, before the only place that will take him is full of kids who will make him feel like he has to prove he’s not a typical public school boy.

I think the holiday is a red herring as he sounds completely out of your control really. Appreciate he’s not getting the pocket money now - but it sounds like a huge amount.
can you use the holiday to reset? Don’t give the phone back , and don’t give him cash to spend. He can spend time with the family and you can all find moments to try and help him see some sense if possible. However - he is at a difficult age and has indeed been spoilt unfortunately so you have a mountain to climb.
Even if you don’t want state school - I would advise you don’t tell him that. I doubt he will want that move either - so this could be your bargaining chip. He also needs to gradually earn all his privileges back - guitar, x box controller, phone , pocket money ( but much less). You need to agree how with DH and stick to it.
Find a way for him to take responsibility before it is too late - there’s much more at stake here than a holiday.

My thoughts as well.

Not the subject of the thread (although possibly relevant) £150 a month is a lot, especially as it doesn't include his phone. Forget what his brothers used to get, given their ages that was a huge amount then too. You are parenting a different child. His 'friends' from the other town will use him for his money, phone and anything else he can get from you.

Ah, thanks,yes my ex dropped out of Uni (30 yrs back now) and also got into sales and probably earned more than he would (thanks to his commission and company car) that he would have had he pursued his Uni degree. It can be great for the right person. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻

@pageknight19,
Can I ask whether your older sons have partners and whether they are also coming on the family holiday?

Go on your holiday. Put him in the local state school...that will sort him

It's not the first sign though. He sounds very troubled.

You need to be cutting off his options to misbehave. No pocket money whatsoever, if he needs a new pair of trainers or deserves a treat etc then buy him the items, don’t give him any cash. Get him a very basic phone (not smartphone), or put settings on his smartphone so he has no internet use, also if possible set it to block all incoming calls except from family numbers, also block outgoing calls apart from these numbers.

a lot of the problem here is the friends he has. He’s travelling to other cities, so is he using cash/card to pay for bus/train fares? That’s what he should have NO ACCESS at all to cash, and also NO WAY to keep in contact with these unsuitable friends he goes drinking with. Leave him with the Xbox but change your WiFi password so he has no internet on it (games consoles have facility to send messages).

If you cut off the cash and cut off the way to make arrangements with these friends in other cities…his ability to behave in this way will be severely limited.

you’ve said he’s stolen alcohol from your house, so remove all the alcohol, or only buy it on the day you will drink it and keep it safely away from him. Ensure as well that you keep cash/cards in a ‘safe’ box as stealing money is the obvious thing he will try next.

as for the school…he’s better off in private becuase they have a higher ratio of staff to pupils so can give him more support…but I would want to keep him there…but if he’s expelled, I would just concentrate on getting him a place quickly, as being out of school for even a few weeks could make matters worse and you could find he ends up school refusing . If the state system gives him a place quickly, then put him there. It may actually be a solution anyway as being away from the ‘posh crowd’ and lads that he feels are more like himself could mean he finds a group of friends at school who are more suitable.

as for the holiday. I would go, because if you stay home for the week and he has nothing to do…aren’t you just going to be dealing with the stress of him possibly disappearing off to another city and drinking with his mates? On holiday (assuming you are a decent distance from home), he can’t do that. It’s also a chance to have a proper conversation with him without distractions (especially if you take his phone and any other device he could communicate with).

As for the £150 a month pocket money, I presume you are quite a high earning household and that’s normal and worked well for you elder children, but it’s not a good idea for a child who is out of control. If he can’t even do the basics such as be in bed at night and not out drinking…then you as a parent should not be rewarding him. As a parent you are responsible for providing clothes, food and a bed to sleep in…that is where your financial responsibility ends. You do not need to provide him with any ‘treats’ when he’s using that as a way to misbehave. It’s worse than misbehaviour becuase what he’s doing is putting himself in a lot of physical danger as well. You really need to put your foot down hard. I wouldn’t even buy him Nike trainers or branded clothes etc, because there is a risk he will sell things to his friends to raise cash if he doesn’t get his drinking money from you. Kit him out in ASDA clothes etc, things that don’t have a ‘street value’.

also a positive about state schools is that their pastoral team will have a lot more experience with dealing with this type of extreme behaviour (although they may have less time to spend having meetings with you than in private).

what you describe is so bad, in terms of not even knowing where he is and tracking him down and finding him drunk…is very shocking for 13. It’s normal at that age to experiment a little bit with alcohol with friends, but sneakily at a school friend’s house etc, not like this, what you describe is dangerous. I even think you should be considering calling social services and telling them your concerns as you clearly aren’t coping with him, a discussion with a social worker may be something that could scare him into realising how abnormal this is and how serious it is and that he may not even be able to continue living with you if his behaviour is so out of control that you cannot as his parents keep him safe. if you know where he is an he’s drunk, even calling the police to have him brought home may shock him, as they will actually sometimes be willing to support parents when a child is out of control.

How old are the friends he meets up with? Another concern would be if they are older than him? I do also think he could be a prime candidate for county lines, so breaking up these friendships really needs to be your priority, because if this escalates to drugs/crime then you could actually put his safety at risk by keeping him at home if he has errand/favours or owes money to someone dangerous.

This. Is his dad parenting him adequately? Does he have good male role models? If not, he will find his role models elsewhere and they won't be the sort you would want for him.

Good male role models? Have you read the thread? He has a father and 3 adult brothers, all respectable .. how many good male role models do you think he should have??