To cancel holiday because of DS’s behaviour?

[pageknight19]

We are supposed to be going away next week and I’m seriously considering cancelling it because of my youngest DS (14). DH thinks I’m being ridiculous and that the only people who will suffer are the rest of us but I feel like we’re rewarding him for behaving like this.

DS is our youngest by quite a long way, his brothers are 34, 32 and 30. They’re all living independently now and the oldest has a little boy of his own. We are comfortable financially and DS has always had opportunities his brothers had, although I do wonder if we’ve been softer on him because he’s the baby. DH says we haven’t.

He’s at a private school and things have been getting progressively worse over the last couple of years. He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged. He’s also been caught vaping more than once and we’ve found out he’s been drinking with other teenagers. I don’t mean he’s having the odd sip at a family gathering, he’s been drinking when he’s been out with friends and lying about it afterwards. Whenever we talk to him about his behaviour or his future, he shrugs. We’ve had meetings with the school and have been told more than once that his attitude needs to change. We’ve tried consequences at home but nothing seems to make much difference for long.

On Friday before half term we had a meeting and were told he was unlikely to be asked back after the holidays. The latest incident involved a row with another boy which got physical, and then DS swore at a member of staff and refused to go with them when they tried to remove him. The school hasn’t formally expelled him at this point but they’ve made it pretty clear that his place is hanging by a thread and we’re supposed to have further discussions about what happens next.

The thing is we have a holiday booked for next week which was arranged months ago. DS knows what’s happened but seems completely unbothered by it. I am absolutely furious that he doesn’t seem to understand the seriousness of the situation. I’m worrying about finding him another school and what happens if nobody wants him, while he’s carrying on as normal. If you try to talk to him about it, he just says he doesn’t want to go to university anyway, as if the only possible consequence is whether he gets into university.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences. DH says it’s too late for that now and all we’d be doing is punishing ourselves and the other boys. He says we can’t spend the next few years cancelling everything because DS has done something wrong and that the holiday was booked and paid for before any of this happened.

I know cancelling a holiday won’t magically sort out his behaviour. But part of me thinks if we just carry on as normal he’ll assume he can do whatever he likes and nothing will change.

WIBU to cancel the holiday? Or would I just be punishing the rest of the family for something that isn’t their fault?

I’m not looking at state schools as I said I don’t see state being any better especially when he’s been at private through all his schooling so far.

He doesn’t care about much, he doesn’t really have anything in the way of hobbies anymore. He enjoys watching films and gaming and that’s about it

@pageknight19 I really feel for you. I have a DS with challenging behaviour (15), sometimes there aren't really any 'reasons'. His behaviour is poor and unacceptable but not out of the range of normal for teenage boys of his age (which is not to say it's ok).

Go on the holiday. It is hard, you probably don't particularly feel like being with him. Cancelling won't solve anything and will instead bring more focus on the situation.

I think all you can do is hang in there. What are his views on potential exclusion? Might that be enough to prompt a change in behaviour?

The only other thing I can suggest is see what other areas of contention you can address, make home life and expectations as straightforward as possible so that all his effort goes into addressing his behaviour at school. In other words, don't fight too many fires at once. I did find that helped.

I wouldn't cancel the holiday. How is he paying for things? No pocket money, lifts to places, electronics until he sorts himself out.

It's so annoying when people post this. I can only assume that you have no experience of such situations.

I absolutely ground my DS for poor behaviour, he loses his phone, he loses other privileges. However, it doesn't work for him. It doesn't help him learn better behaviour, he either sucks it up, or he protests but he doesn't make a link between consequences and his behaviour.

Furthermore, once they get to a certain age, if they want to go out, they will. You can't stop them.

What works, sort of, for my DS, is discussing (each time) the behaviour, the 'why', impact on others, what he'll do differently. It is obviously not a quick fix but sometimes, I do see him gaining insight and I think it has helped, to a degree. It's a repeated activity though, which gets draining.

Ultimately, you take away all a teen's privileges, they feel angry and resentful and very unlikely to care about changing.

Maybe an educational psychologist? So he doesn’t feel it’s therapy but more around working out if there are any learning difficulties at play.

you do need to spend half term strategising because putting him into the wrong school now will just exacerbate the issues. I would be very tempted to hold him back a year and get the current school to actively engage in finding a school that could work

Does he have a close relationship with any of his brothers? Could he talk things through with them. If he likes films and gaming could they connect with him that way? What jobs do they do? Might be another way to connect.

But won’t you struggle to get another private school to take him? Or could you home school?

He doesn’t get pocket money when he misbehaves and he’s currently grounded but it hasn’t changed a thing and we still can’t have a proper conversation with him about anything, not even just his behaviour

He doesn’t seem bothered about the possibility of losing his place and having to go elsewhere but that’s also not helped by DH thinking that he will be given yet another chance (which I highly doubt)

I'm giving advice that I find hard to take myself but I think the week away is important. If you can't talk to him at all at the moment, you might find the week away resets things a bit - he's calmer, you are, different environment etc.

You need a way in to talk to him.

Right now, he assumes you'll just get cross with him (understandably) so he won't talk at all.

Take a break from it, go on holiday, all the matters will still be there when you come back. Leaving this school might be the best thing in any case.

I have seven children and lots of experience. My elder two were particularly challenging but we all nipped it in the bud pretty quick and they are now fine. If we allow continue bad behaviour without boundaries it will continue and get worse. It worked for my family. Not saying it works for all but it did mine

He may also assume you can fix it all for him

his dad really needs to understand that private schools don’t like to expel and this will very much be a ‘mutual agreement’ as far as they’re concerned, even if it isn’t as far as you are!!

You seem a bit passive about the entire thing and more worried about the holiday then his behaviour for the past two years.

You said he has had consequences but you haven't said what those consequences were what consequences specifically has he had and how long did they last?

Why has there been no serious intervention on your part prior to this? Where is the parenting? What do you mean by 'we don't allow it, he just goes'. So you are allowing him then? I have a 14 yr old and what we say at home as parents goes.

I do wonder if at times, affluence and resources have a direct correlation on active parenting. With all yhese resources at your disposal, and the fact you have raised 3 older boys - why have you not taken this problem by the horns and sorted it out? Regardless of any ND diagnosis etc, teens still need to be parented and follow rules.

The holiday is a red herring, thats neither here not there. Take off the silk gloves, stop enabling his truancy and parent him.

yes, absolutely. I do agree. And I would have (and have, and do!) tried all that in terms of consequences - remove devices, pocket money, privileges.

The reality is that for some children / teens, it works (it would have for me but then I didn't ever really get into trouble). It doesn't for others.

And at a certain point, your ability to impose those restrictions ceases. I can 'ground' my 15 yo DS but if he decides he's going out, I cannot stop him (either I'm not actually there or if I was, I can't prevent him leaving). There is an element of parenting by consensus required.

While I do still do these things, I also recognise that they don't actually improve my DS behaviour. In fact, he'll spend more time working out ways to circumvent the consequence, and as he has more time, and more to gain, than I do. he will often be able to.

As hard as it is for me to realise, there is no gain here. It's not solving the problem.

As painful and repetitive as it is, making time to connect with my DS, and talking, and talking and working through each stage of his behaviour, the impact is really the only thing that works. And I know that wouldn't work for everyone. I've realised with that that my DS doesn't really like being in 'trouble' or seen by others as behaving badly. So tapping into that motivation helps. Slowly. It may be a different motivation for others, but just saying ' take away everything' as if it is some panacea - it's not. OP is saying this. Her DS is currently grounded, may be shortly excluded from school and he doesn't care.

So glibly suggesting that you would do this and that would resolve everything (implying it's OP's fault as a parent that her DS is like this) is very annoying to read, sorry but it is.

He sounds a very unhappy boy. Do you think he might be involved with drugs? The holiday might be good in getting him away from whatever friends he is hanging out with. Is there anyone who can communicate with him? You need to define out what is happening in his life. Is he being bullied? Is he struggling at school? Maybe he is acting out because he wants to leave this school. Try texting him if you can’t speak to him. Say you want to help him and that he can change schools if he wants to but that his behaviour is upsetting all of you and that you want to help
him. Don’t let him have any money unless he earns it by doing chores and take away his electronic devices as a consequence for bad behaviour.

🙄I have to wonder if some posters engage their brains at all before they post.

OP sounds worried as hell to me, and upset. She wants to cancel the holiday as it seems like a treat for her DS who is behaving very poorly. That's what she's asking about.

Another parent who simply hasn't a clue that different dynamics exist - not understanding that while you have a situation that if you say something, your DC accepts it (I have that with some of my DC too), there are other situations where DC just ... won't.

They still have to be parented, and a solution arrived at. Try considering others' perspectives before making such categorical statements.

I don’t think it is a learning issue, he was top of the class until year 8 when he just preferred to try less. But when he does try he does well, he got an 8 in a practice german essay and his teacher said it was one of the best in the class and he could likely get a 9 in an actual exam if he did that but made a few tweaks to it. He gets good feedback in other lessons when he tries too.

Of course i’m worried about his behaviour, i’m not just worried about the holiday but it does all seem linked because taking him away will feel like rewarding him and it won’t change his behaviour as he was the same once we got home from our holidays in the summer.

One of his brothers has tried talking to him but he was told to mind his own business. And I do think maybe we’ve spilt him/done too much for him since he was our surprise baby and the baby of the family. By the time he was 2 all his brothers had moved out and perhaps we did spoil him over the years

It could still be a learning issue in that he’s struggling to achieve what he’s capable of consistently. It’s not unusual to come out at this age and for bright kids to get incredibly frustrated and act out.

Was the German essay done in class or at home?

@pageknight19 if he is bright, I would focus now on what is coming up. Tell him where he's headed (leaving the school) and ask him how he feels about that. What will he do next? Where does he propose he goes to school? And so on.

If he doesn't want to go to university, what else does he suggest? The likelihood is he will care and he does want to go (as he is bright), it's just not on his radar now.

That's why the holiday to break the current cycle is a good idea. Instead of worrying it's rewarding him, ask what the opposite will achieve? If you cancel it, you also lose out too, right? As you'll stay at home with him. Does that mean the whole family won't go? Think about how much power that is conferring on him then - the whole family's holiday is ruined by him. That's not a good strategy

To talk to him, you have to stay calm. It's really hard. But might be easier when you've had a break. Really make him work through what the next steps are. He knows he has to be in school, and he probably wants to be, so make him think through what it's going to look like if he has to leave this school.

It’s odd you say he doesn’t get pocket money when he misbehaves since he’s constantly misbehaving ? Has he access to money? What are the concrete punishments he’s had for his behaviour? Specifically electronic devices and his phone?

It was done in class

I would get an ed psych to assess him tbh And help you find the right school

most private schools won’t take kids after this half term in year 10

This.

It's not just sips of alcohol though, he regularly takes it and drinks with his friends and then lies even though it’s obvious. The same with the vapes.

So its not just your DS that's doing it.. but all his friends at school. Are they about to be expelled? Or just him. I'd be looking into that.
He's been at that school since he was 7 and they haven't been able to sort him out?
Is there a chance that they are one of those private schools that believes in "weeding out" kids who look like they may not perform well in forthcoming exams, there by denting the schools exam record which they rely on for recruitment?

You are angry, and that is understandable and you are seeking ways to punish him for his behaviour.. by doing something that punishes the whole family. I'm with your DH on this one. Supposing you did that. How would that actually help the situation. as many have said having to leave a school he's been at since he was 7 is already consequences and punishment.

You need to find out what's causing this, until you do, you can't improve the situation. Maybe some on here will have some ideas of people/organisations you can get individual RL advice on how to help him. He needs your help, he's dug himself into a great big pit that he can't get out of on his own. He needs to be able to trust you enough to confide in you and not just get a telling off. He needs an advocate. Does he have a good relationship with his older brothers?

Some kids just need more supervision with homework, getting into routines, going back to square one with learning to organise themself, or they cannot understand why they are always on the back foot
. Often its no good telling them to do it, you have to kickstart it, get them into a routine, literally sit at the homework table with them ( read a book or something) and keep them company as they get it done. Its surprising how much they open up and tell you more about school if you do. And once they get into a routine you can ease up and let them do more on their own.
The carrot, not the stick.. It can be incredibly frustrating when you want to criticise a poor effort, but you need to instead show them how to improve it. It may take a bit of time, but it does help get them out of the homework hole they've dug. Then they are less likely to aways be in the bad books at school, having forgotten something or not completed homework or brought in the right books. Often that's all it takes for them to feel the whole thing is hopeless. If that is one of the issues. It really can be fixed.

If they feel that everything is boring work boring lectures about how they haven't done well in this or that, and they feel like they will never succeed in anything , they can just give up. So a balance helps. eg school holidays. A day or two of something they like, a day or two of work... No point setting unachievable targets. Their brain is saying this is not school time. Adult brains are worrying they need to catch up.

Don't compare him to his brothers. Completely different generation. Completely different world growing up.

University isn't at all tempting to a 14 year old. If he's adamant that he doesn't want to go, it sounds like he's rebelling against an idea thats been suggested to him quite a lot. "If you don't do that you won't get into uni." That seems decades away to him. Not sure which year he's in but maybe worth focussing more on the near future. It's also worth saying to him. Get through your GCSEs then you can drop the subjects you hate, and pick fewer ones that you actually like.

If there are particular subjects they really struggle in, it seems counter intuitive if they are at private school already, but maybe a one to one tutor would help them fill in the gaps and catch up. If it got them back on top of a subject, it would be worth it, to feel that he might succeed in something.

What other things interest him. Clubs. Sports, etc. The more activitiies he has the less chance he has to get bored and find more troublesome things to do.

So I think you should all go on the holiday. Change of scene. But if he's in disgrace throughout.. its not going to move things forward, or improve communications. Instead (and I know it will be frustrating) try taking him out, buy him a big ice cream and ask him about his favourite band/game/sport or film... and talk about something that isn't school, or what he did wrong. Adult to almost adult. I think that is the way to get him talking and for him to feel heard. Im not saying kid gloves and reward him, but it's about trying a different approach as he's growing older. Then you can move on to getting him to suggest solutions and what he needs to change. I know its an uphill task but Wishing you the very best of luck x

Yes. He’s not had pocket money for a while now especially given how he talks to us at home but when he was getting it, it’d start with £150 a month which I know sounds like a lot but it’s how much his brothers used to get at their age (and things were cheaper then so for them it really was a lot) and we used to reduce it by £10 whenever he did something so sometimes he was getting 70/80 but it was still a lot. We paid for his phone separately, and we’d buy his clothes unless he wanted something specific like more trainers when he had a few pairs that were perfectly fine etc. We made it clear once he had spent the money for the month that was it and we weren’t giving him more but I do think he’s saved some too so not getting any doesn’t affect him that much.

We take his phone, it used to have an effect but now it doesn’t. He doesn’t have his xbox controller currently so can’t play it and he doesn’t have his guitar after he purposely broke it and we aren’t replacing it until he behaves better and we trust him not to do it again. So he really doesn’t have much right now but his attitude is still getting worse

I agree with your DH. Why should the entire family be punished for the bad behaviour of your youngest?

I know you're trying to do your best but, if he doesn't care about being thrown out of school, why are you against a state school for him? It might be worth at least considering state options, as there's no point throwing money at a private school when he's going to get zero benefit from it. What other choice is there? Does he have the discipline for an online home school?

Does he think he may want to work in film or gaming? Maybe find out what sort of jobs are available and work backwards in terms of requirements? If they don't need a uni degree, but value life experience (like building his own game of app), that could be a positive direction for him to explore.