To cancel holiday because of DS’s behaviour?

[pageknight19]

We are supposed to be going away next week and I’m seriously considering cancelling it because of my youngest DS (14). DH thinks I’m being ridiculous and that the only people who will suffer are the rest of us but I feel like we’re rewarding him for behaving like this.

DS is our youngest by quite a long way, his brothers are 34, 32 and 30. They’re all living independently now and the oldest has a little boy of his own. We are comfortable financially and DS has always had opportunities his brothers had, although I do wonder if we’ve been softer on him because he’s the baby. DH says we haven’t.

He’s at a private school and things have been getting progressively worse over the last couple of years. He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged. He’s also been caught vaping more than once and we’ve found out he’s been drinking with other teenagers. I don’t mean he’s having the odd sip at a family gathering, he’s been drinking when he’s been out with friends and lying about it afterwards. Whenever we talk to him about his behaviour or his future, he shrugs. We’ve had meetings with the school and have been told more than once that his attitude needs to change. We’ve tried consequences at home but nothing seems to make much difference for long.

On Friday before half term we had a meeting and were told he was unlikely to be asked back after the holidays. The latest incident involved a row with another boy which got physical, and then DS swore at a member of staff and refused to go with them when they tried to remove him. The school hasn’t formally expelled him at this point but they’ve made it pretty clear that his place is hanging by a thread and we’re supposed to have further discussions about what happens next.

The thing is we have a holiday booked for next week which was arranged months ago. DS knows what’s happened but seems completely unbothered by it. I am absolutely furious that he doesn’t seem to understand the seriousness of the situation. I’m worrying about finding him another school and what happens if nobody wants him, while he’s carrying on as normal. If you try to talk to him about it, he just says he doesn’t want to go to university anyway, as if the only possible consequence is whether he gets into university.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences. DH says it’s too late for that now and all we’d be doing is punishing ourselves and the other boys. He says we can’t spend the next few years cancelling everything because DS has done something wrong and that the holiday was booked and paid for before any of this happened.

I know cancelling a holiday won’t magically sort out his behaviour. But part of me thinks if we just carry on as normal he’ll assume he can do whatever he likes and nothing will change.

WIBU to cancel the holiday? Or would I just be punishing the rest of the family for something that isn’t their fault?

I wouldn't cancel a holiday.
He would go state and I would set very clear boundries after haft term for behaviour and expectations.

So have you ever sought any psychological help for him? An educational psychologist?

I also think ADHD but I would say from my own experience that his behaviours are quite mild actually if he is someone with a different neurotype, no support, no medication, no understanding and quite high expectations around academics.

I have a daughter around this age diagnosed with AuDHD at 7 and her behaviour was rather more extreme than this. She's doing OK now but she has had a lot of support and therapy and she goes to a state school which is strong on SEND.

It is tough on the family to have a "black sheep" that doesn't fit in but it's pretty tough to BE the black sheep!

I would take him I don't think it would feel a consequence to him being left at home to do as he pleases.

Have you ever called him out on the reasons to why he behaves the way he does at school? I wonder if "You obviously don't want to be at private and going to university, that's fine. What do you want instead then?". Put the onus on him rather than what he probably feels is nagging (we know as adults it isn't). I think if you come down a peg and explore it with him whether he might want to drop his barriers. He may feel that he can't talk to you about it as you are closed off in that he needs to do academically well, go to university and be 'sorted' like his big brothers. This is no way a dig at you personally as we all want our kids to do well academically but I wonder if a softer approach to get to the bottom of it and then you can readjust the boundaries depending on what he tells you.

I meant to add that this kind of situation is very hard on the parents' relationship so take care of that.

DH and I argued a lot because we weren't sure what to do about the extreme behaviours.

A good book that really helped me is Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child. Read the chapter about wider family very carefully. You don't want to allow your adult kids to worsen the situation. The primary relationship is that of you and DH with youngest DS.

At some level under a load of bravado he probably feels a complete failure.

Who exactly were suppose to be going on holiday? Could you and DH just go and your youngest DS. Nobody else.

I would go ahead with holiday is so and I wouldn't go in all guns blazing but maybe at dinner give him a stern talking to that you are up of his behaviour and he is essentially spoiling himself!

Haven’t RTFT so apologies if this has already been said but the last thing I would do is cancel the holiday! Getting him away from the current environment including his mates in the city, surrounded by people he loves and trusts sounds like a great opportunity to get to the bottom of what’s going on with him.
In an ideal world you’d be able to make it a device free trip so he’s cut off from any negative reinforcement.
Talk to the rest of the family, make a plan to really lock in and support him while away. Good luck

Your son's behaviour isn't normal, even for the average teenager. No parent expects their child to behave perfectly all the time, we all expect odd occasions of poor behaviour. Behaviour is the result of emotions and feelings, that can't be expressed or aren't being met.

Is the poor behave masking the fact he's struggling academically? Or a lack of understanding of tasks set? The inability to organise himself, so becomes overwhelmed? Or is distracted way too much? Equally, be honest with yourself, you wonder if you've been too soft with him? Is there any truth in that? Is there a lack of boundaries and discipline at home? If a child isn't used to either of these things at home, they go through school and life expecting to be able to do as they want/when.

Perhaps private school isn't right for your son. Are expectations extremely high, and he simply can't reach the goals set? He's going to be demoralised, which will effect his self-esteem, if that's the case. Does he have a good friendship group at school? Are your expectations too high? For example, are you pushing for him to go to university, when he doesn't want to do that? Going to university isn't for everyone (regardless of what schools/government like to feed us!).

You need to try and get to the bottom of the poor behaviour, rather than cancelling a holiday.

I agree with your DS. I don't think anything you've mentioned is that unusual for a 14 year old boy. And I think you should take into account that there might have been attenuating circumstances to the school incident. We haven't heard his side of the story. If schoolmates are physically assaulting him in that school and school staff are aggressively removing him after being assaulted to the degree where he doesn't trust them enough to willingly go with them it may be that the school isn't the best environment for him. You sound like you're escalating typical teenage behaviour and reframing every incident through the lens of your child being in the wrong. And I really don't see how continuing to escalate and punish your whole family is helpful.

@SucksToBeYou

Your comment doesn't make any sense to me.

The previous poster made a valid point. There was no issue with their comprehension.

I would reframe the holiday as an opportunity to really talk with your DS about what is going on. Does his dad spend quality time with him? What about his relationship with his brothers? There may be something that has happened, or is happening that is behind this behaviour. He needs support and parenting as well as discipline. The school may well not be the right place for him anyway.

Who are these other boys? Are they older? Huge red flag there.

I’d go on hols still. Maybe his brothers can have a proper talk with him when you’re all away.

This age can be very tricky … it was the worst stage of parenting for me 14-16/17.

Most of them get through it unscathed 🙏, not sure we do though 😂

You would probably be complaining about wealthy older generations who don't help their offspring.
Lots of families I know do the occasional family holiday, all partners and DC included and paid for by mum and dad. They wouldn't go if they didn't enjoy each other's company.

@pageknight19 won't come back perhaps because she doesn't agree with professional s looking at her child. She raised three with no issues so why is number four not the same. Well he just isn't. In fact he may have more potential, but the school and parents can't or won't see it.

Strangely it's often children who up to teenage years that are enrolled in private education because things have gone awry

A lot of you have given excellent advice which the OP maybe doesn't like.

Well @pageknight19 with respect it's not about you, your husband etc. it's about your fourth child who has broken the mould. I fear you'll never understand him.

You'd be basically giving him the power to ruin everyone else's holiday. And punishing the siblings and your grandchildren for his behaviour.

You're being stunningly illogical in considering cancelling. It would not just be counter-productive, it would ruin your relationships with the rest of the family, and theirs with him. I honestly don't understand your thinking.

I personally don't like punishments that affect other people. It's not fair on the others.

I think I would suggest your DH goes on the holiday with the other children and you stay home with DS. I’d use the time to find him a place in a state school. Looks like he is going to need it. I’d remove all electronic devices and stop him meeting with his ‘friends’ for the foreseeable future until he demonstrates better behaviour. You need some serious consequences that are really going to hurt. All trips outside the home not to school and back to be accompanied by a parent. I’d personally not try to worry too much about school work and exams and his future atm. If he loses a year, even 2, it’s not the end of the world. He can still get back on track. The issue is getting the right behaviours instilled. You could even homeschool if you think it would help.

Cancelling the holiday is the wrpng punishment. Going on holiday and him having no phone or internet for the full week so he can't contact his newer friends seems a better punishment.

Where is the holiday to go OP? I think you should of just booked a holiday with you and DH. Or maybe him and DS can go together?

@justasking111where did you get the idea I don’t want professionals looking at him? I’ve not said that anywhere. He won’t engage in therapy, the pastoral care ar his school is quite good and they had a counsellor check in with him, a member of staff he could go to but it didn’t help. I dont think his behaviour is normal for 14 either, on other threads of people writing similar about their teens (and even not as bad) they get told it’s not normal etc, it’s not just because i’ve raised 3 older boys. I’m not pressuring him to go to uni, i don’t care if he doesn’t or doesn’t go but he still needs a school place. I don’t believe a jump to state would make things better either, it’s likely to be worse as he’s only ever been to private school and other kids can be cruel and likely would pick up on that and there’s bigger classes and he’d quite enjoy being the entertainment and with bigger classes likely to get more encouragement.

I don’t think it’s adhd or any struggles with the work.

We don’t let him go to the city, he just goes, having stolen alcohol from home and he’s currently grounded with no clubs either, we likely would’ve allowed guitar lessons to continue but he currently doesn’t have a guitar after he broke it and he is bored but he’s shown no remorse. DH seems to think school will give him another chance but I doubt it. They have given more than enough

Make sure he has no money for vapes or alcohol and no access to booze from your house. No money for bus fares into town. His new mates will soon get tired of subbing him.

Op. Is there anything he does care about?

School are telling you to move him so he doesn’t have an expulsion on his record

ive been through similar. Feel free to pm me!

Hey @pageknight19 I think you should really take the school at their word and be looking for a different setting. It's much harder to find a place after you have been officially kicked out. If you are looking at state, call them (or the council) today. Get the paperwork prepped and submit it. These things take time. You don't have to accept an offer if one comes through and things change.

On the counselling angle, likely the people he has spoken to just don't work for him. Or the setting doesn't work. Or he just isn't up for this type of thing.

Try and source someone not related to his current school. Kids will notice if he leaves class to talk to the counsellor and he likely doesn't want that. If he does end up going back, ensure the sessions are held during class time- preferably during his least favourite class. That's your key to get him to at least pretend to engage and it might flow from there.....