To cancel holiday because of DS’s behaviour?

[pageknight19]

We are supposed to be going away next week and I’m seriously considering cancelling it because of my youngest DS (14). DH thinks I’m being ridiculous and that the only people who will suffer are the rest of us but I feel like we’re rewarding him for behaving like this.

DS is our youngest by quite a long way, his brothers are 34, 32 and 30. They’re all living independently now and the oldest has a little boy of his own. We are comfortable financially and DS has always had opportunities his brothers had, although I do wonder if we’ve been softer on him because he’s the baby. DH says we haven’t.

He’s at a private school and things have been getting progressively worse over the last couple of years. He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged. He’s also been caught vaping more than once and we’ve found out he’s been drinking with other teenagers. I don’t mean he’s having the odd sip at a family gathering, he’s been drinking when he’s been out with friends and lying about it afterwards. Whenever we talk to him about his behaviour or his future, he shrugs. We’ve had meetings with the school and have been told more than once that his attitude needs to change. We’ve tried consequences at home but nothing seems to make much difference for long.

On Friday before half term we had a meeting and were told he was unlikely to be asked back after the holidays. The latest incident involved a row with another boy which got physical, and then DS swore at a member of staff and refused to go with them when they tried to remove him. The school hasn’t formally expelled him at this point but they’ve made it pretty clear that his place is hanging by a thread and we’re supposed to have further discussions about what happens next.

The thing is we have a holiday booked for next week which was arranged months ago. DS knows what’s happened but seems completely unbothered by it. I am absolutely furious that he doesn’t seem to understand the seriousness of the situation. I’m worrying about finding him another school and what happens if nobody wants him, while he’s carrying on as normal. If you try to talk to him about it, he just says he doesn’t want to go to university anyway, as if the only possible consequence is whether he gets into university.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences. DH says it’s too late for that now and all we’d be doing is punishing ourselves and the other boys. He says we can’t spend the next few years cancelling everything because DS has done something wrong and that the holiday was booked and paid for before any of this happened.

I know cancelling a holiday won’t magically sort out his behaviour. But part of me thinks if we just carry on as normal he’ll assume he can do whatever he likes and nothing will change.

WIBU to cancel the holiday? Or would I just be punishing the rest of the family for something that isn’t their fault?

Leave him with someone and go by yourselves.

Once when I was young and me and my siblings were being dicks my dad didn’t cancel our holiday but he did cancel all the fun parts of it. We spent a week going round history tours and to vegetarian restaurants (stuff my mum loves). Tbh as an adult I would have loved it (probably minus the vegetarian bit) but we a teen I found it a fate worse than death. Didn’t complain though because I know my dad would have let me fucking have it for upsetting my mum more than I already had with my behaviour. She still talks about that holiday and how much fun she had. Would something like this be an option? That way you guys don’t lose out?

Given the amount of pocket money he's been receiving, it's possible that he has a phone you don't know about.

£150 a month???
Yes you have spoilt him. I don’t have that much to spend on myself as an adult working full time!

I have said why Im against it, he has been at private school the entire of his schooling and other kids can be cruel, they’ll likely pick on him and that won’t help matters. I dont know about online schooling but I worry about the social side as he doesn’t go to any clubs anymore.

When we ask what job he wants to do he just says he doesn’t know / doesn’t care or shrugs

then it was incorrect for you to state he was not given pocket money. In fact he’s never without money, which is why he’s able to get to a city, able to buy drink and drugs. He’s had no consequences.

So, for how long, days, weeks months has he ever not had ANY pocket money?

When and for how long was his phone taken off him? You’re skirting around my question by talking about paying for it separately.

I’d imagine he could not care less about clothes, of which I’d also imagine he has tons of the best, I don’t criticise you for that, but you’re teaching him no values, especially constantly buying stuff he doesn’t actually need.

He’s clearly very spoilt. Has no consequences, and has learnt he can get whatever he wants and behave appallingly. His parents are doing him no favours. It’s a classic case of throwing money at the problem.

The maddest think is you think cancelling the holiday means something. You’ll just upset everybody. It’s better to go on holiday, but I’d be grounding him with no money and no devices. With a firm plan to tackle his behaviour on return. Sending him to a local school, which you’re making every excuse not to do, is an abject failure as a parent. He needs tough love, structure, strong discipline.

I’ve been to boarding school, all my children also, I’ve seen boys like yours. The school is not going to solve this for you. If anything he’s on a very wrong path.

Last question, who gives the pocket money? Who the punishments. Are you and your husband aligned?

What on earth are you on about? Lots of extended families who get along and love each other do that; it's their chance to spend time together.

Given his behaviour and the extreme amounts of money you’ve been giving him, that he seems unconcerned about his phone and monetary consequences, the disappearing off to other cities with random boys, I’d strongly suspect drugs are involved. Either taking them or even dealing them.
Have you searched his room, bags, coat pockets, etc? Does he smell of weed when he comes back?

So who are these kids he’s meeting up with in the city if not school friends? I would be very worried that he’s at risk of getting himself into serious trouble with criminal activity that he will find almost impossible to escape.

If there is anything you can do to freeze his access to cash and let him have both beyond a brick phone I would urge you to act now. He’s 14 so you have to take control back.

I had a very tricky teenager and it is hard to keep control but you have to do it anyway.

@EvieBB he did A levels but half heartedly then a L2 apprenticeship which I thought a bit of a time waster really but he met someone who he started to work for(small independent retailer) and that quickly led to him managing the shop and sales. He then changed jobs every 12-18 months targeting different sales jobs until he ended up in a team he manages where most are graduates his age or older. He makes a great basic and it’s topped up by commissions. He had also looked at big employer jobs eg local water companies but when he realised he was so good with sales went that way.

My mother listened to one of my younger sisters complain about school as a reason for not studying. That she didn’t see the point of going to school etc. Mum then helpfully suggested working as an alternative, sister thought that was a great idea, so Mum said that they pop in the car and go to Tesco where she could get a job packing shelves. Which you didn’t need any school exams for at that time. That was the end of that discussion. Sister became a chartered accountant.

(there’s nothing wrong with working in a supermarket, I’ve done it, as has one of my children, but education is important)

If no private school will have him then he will have to go to a state school.
Some of what is happening may be down to the fact that he has been privately educated his entire life and has by the sounds of it a very privileged upbringing.
Im by no means against private schools, I have nieces and nephews at them but given his behaviour, he won’t be any worse off at a state school where the staff will probably have more experience with behavioural/discipline issues.
I wouldn’t cancel the holiday because I get the feeling he’d rather not go anyway, which friends is he hanging out with to drink and vape if his school friends are distancing themselves from him?!
He has been brought up as an only child really given the age gaps, he will have had a different childhood to your others because of it.
He’s of the age where he needs to learn if you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes and that means a drastic change including schooling.
My eldest is 12 months younger and isn’t perfect but knows the world isn’t going to bend to fit him in it, you need to find something he does care about and encourage it.

OP think about a year from here. He could be getting on with you but failing at school. He could be getting on with you and doing ok at school. He could be taking the money off groomers while he thinks he is having fun or he could be out endlessly with dodgy figures and behaving violently and abusively every time you see him. Police won’t much care next year and he can run off, duck around and do what he wants. Plenty of kids do so you invest in him now as whether an undiagnosed ADHDer or a fear of failure preemptive loser or a enjoying the glamour of the edgy kids he needs the same thing - more love and more understanding. He wants to come away with you - that’s a big win! Use it.

He's 14. You need to abandon the carrot and stick model. It's not working with him. Take him on holiday. Spend the morning doing some strenuous exercise with him, then take him on his own somewhere quiet and ask him gently.

About all this school business..what would be your ideal scenario? Where does he want to go? Ask him how likely that is? What does he think he needs to do to make that happen? And if that doesn't happen, what would his next best scenario be etc etc

If he walks away, just do it again the next day. Point out that if he wants to be treated as an adult, he has to clear up his own messes. And part of being an adult is taking responsibility, so he needs to step up.

Lead him through the decision and planning process but put him in charge of his own future. He's just a boy demanding to be a man in all the wrong ways. You've got to meet him half way.

PS Sorry this will spoil your holiday, I know

Go on holiday. Get him away from his mates for a while, give him a break from them.
I imagine being a private school kid could be a bit embarrassing with his new friends, peehaps thats contributing to his acting out?

Lots of families have holidays together, it’s hardly breaking news.

I wonder why that poster put family in quotation marks? Strange.

I also think you should have the holiday and try to get him to be active (him lolling around will make him worse). Don’t go straight into chats about things though, give him a couple of days first.

Here is the visual chart of Adele’s Goals of Misbehaviour, based on Alfred Adler’s individual psychology and the parenting approach developed by Rudolf Dreikurs.
The four goals are:
Attention — “Notice me. Involve me.”
Power — “I want to be in charge.”
Revenge — “I feel hurt, so I want you to feel hurt too.”
Display of inadequacy — “I give up. I can’t do it.”
The key Adlerian idea is that behaviour can be understood in terms of a child’s mistaken attempt to find belonging and significance. These are hypotheses for understanding behaviour, not fixed labels or diagnoses.
A useful next step is to notice your own reaction to the behaviour: feeling annoyed, challenged, hurt or helpless can sometimes offer a clue about the goal the child may be pursuing.

I’ve added the chart but it’s under review. It’s useful for ALL “misbehaviour”.

Ok, I guess I am harsher. His choice is to behave and continue at the private school or risk being teased at a new state school. The choice is his (if his existing school will take him back).

To be honest, it is hard to answer vague questions like 'what do you want to do with your life?' or 'what job would you like' when you're only a young teen. I don't mean you shouldn't ask, just that I would have answered the same as your son at that age. Even as adults, very few people have a calling; we just fall into things, which leads to the next job, and the next.

Would it help him if you were more specific about exactly how limited his choices are, but that they are his choices? ie. 'you have to be in school until you're 16. You can either stay at your existing school (if your behaviour completely changes), or you can go to a state school. At 16, you can carry on there or go into training.'

I absolutely loathed school (primary, high school and uni!). What made a difference for me was an unrelated adult saying something like, 'but it's up to you if you stay in school. At 16, you can legally choose to leave.' Reframing it as a choice I had control over, rather than a miserable existence that was foisted on me made me feel better. (I still hated school, but I did finish.)

Sorry, somehow it cut out the section about your son trying to tell you something and it not getting through. He’s displaying inadequacy. He will have traveled through all the other sections and is now in the most severe. If I were you I’d really reflect on your family and your attitude to him as a person. Is he a “mistake” for example? I got Chat GPT to make the chart because I couldn’t photograph my book. I have worked with many families and this chart is very effective for self- reflection and changing patterns.

We used to reduce the pocket money but he hasn’t had any since the beginning of August. Then a couple days later we had his location and tracked him and he was in Birmingham (We’re in Warwick) and DH went to him and he was quite drunk. We talked to him but the next day we were flying quite early so had hoped for a natural consequence but he was completely fine,, talking to him didn’t go anywhere, we just got attitude and him telling us to fuck off and leave him alone (when sober) and stop treating him like a kid - which he was at 13 and still is now. He usually goes to Coventry now but he also turns his location off. He’s not had his phone for nearly a week and he hasn’t been out since then either bar a trip to play tennis with DH like they used to but he wasn’t happy about it and expected his phone back

I have searched his room in the past and found 3 vapes but I haven’t searched it for a while, he usually keeps it tidy and somehow knows when it’s been searched - despite putting things as they were - and kicks off

Well if cancelling means 'punishing the other boys' who are all over 30, then presumably they have paid some money towards this holiday and you can't just unilaterally cancel it? Even if you've paid for all of them, you'll still be massively out of pocket at this late stage and they'll have booked time off work.

And will a 14 yo even care? At that age they aren't massive fans of family holidays anyway. From the way you describe him, he'd spend most of his time in his room on his phone and not really enjoying himself anyway so who is really being punished here?

If it's a holiday you think he'd genuinely enjoy and you really want to punish him in a way that will stay with him and hit home, then you stay at home with him and let your DH go and have a great time with your other sons.

"I don’t think it is a learning issue, he was top of the class until year 8 when he just preferred to try less. But when he does try he does well, he got an 8 in a practice german essay and his teacher said it was one of the best in the class and he could likely get a 9 in an actual exam if he did that but made a few tweaks to it. He gets good feedback in other lessons when he tries too."

I was exactly like this (plus everything else you've described), and my parents didn't think I had ADHD either.

I was lucky to make it through my teenage years with all the risks I took. My parents (and I - although I pretended I didn't care) suffered badly until I left home at 17.

I didn't get diagnosed until I was 40.

OP, he sounds angry at the world and depressed, like literally nothing in life has any value or sense, he doesn’t sound spoilt. I would go back to when it all started and really think hard what happened- with him, in wider friendship circles…anything that would make a young boy think that it’s all pointless or that he doesn’t deserve all that he has. I don’t think you should cancel the holiday, if you do you’ll upset everyone else and he’ll just revert to: “whatever, it doesn’t matter”.