To cancel holiday because of DS’s behaviour?

[pageknight19]

We are supposed to be going away next week and I’m seriously considering cancelling it because of my youngest DS (14). DH thinks I’m being ridiculous and that the only people who will suffer are the rest of us but I feel like we’re rewarding him for behaving like this.

DS is our youngest by quite a long way, his brothers are 34, 32 and 30. They’re all living independently now and the oldest has a little boy of his own. We are comfortable financially and DS has always had opportunities his brothers had, although I do wonder if we’ve been softer on him because he’s the baby. DH says we haven’t.

He’s at a private school and things have been getting progressively worse over the last couple of years. He’s bright enough but just refuses to do work if he doesn’t feel like it, argues with teachers, has had detentions and suspensions and can be incredibly rude when challenged. He’s also been caught vaping more than once and we’ve found out he’s been drinking with other teenagers. I don’t mean he’s having the odd sip at a family gathering, he’s been drinking when he’s been out with friends and lying about it afterwards. Whenever we talk to him about his behaviour or his future, he shrugs. We’ve had meetings with the school and have been told more than once that his attitude needs to change. We’ve tried consequences at home but nothing seems to make much difference for long.

On Friday before half term we had a meeting and were told he was unlikely to be asked back after the holidays. The latest incident involved a row with another boy which got physical, and then DS swore at a member of staff and refused to go with them when they tried to remove him. The school hasn’t formally expelled him at this point but they’ve made it pretty clear that his place is hanging by a thread and we’re supposed to have further discussions about what happens next.

The thing is we have a holiday booked for next week which was arranged months ago. DS knows what’s happened but seems completely unbothered by it. I am absolutely furious that he doesn’t seem to understand the seriousness of the situation. I’m worrying about finding him another school and what happens if nobody wants him, while he’s carrying on as normal. If you try to talk to him about it, he just says he doesn’t want to go to university anyway, as if the only possible consequence is whether he gets into university.

I said to DH that I think we should cancel the holiday. I don’t mean because I think the school will change its mind if we do, but because I feel like he needs to understand that his behaviour has consequences. DH says it’s too late for that now and all we’d be doing is punishing ourselves and the other boys. He says we can’t spend the next few years cancelling everything because DS has done something wrong and that the holiday was booked and paid for before any of this happened.

I know cancelling a holiday won’t magically sort out his behaviour. But part of me thinks if we just carry on as normal he’ll assume he can do whatever he likes and nothing will change.

WIBU to cancel the holiday? Or would I just be punishing the rest of the family for something that isn’t their fault?

I would go but not bring his phone. That stays locked away at home. Bring some reading books/ games and tell him if he gets really bored, he can think about what his next steps are if the school won’t take him back.

“goes to a nearby city and hangs around with other boys who he considers closer friends”

WTF / how does he know these boys??

I would’ve considering (1) some kind of therapy or counsellor for him (2) repeating a year somewhere (3) proactively putting him in a new school because this might not be the right place for him - speak to his teachers and scope them out. They may think redemption is within reach (4) very strict boundaries (5) very limited tech (5) and by far the most important, talking to him about your worries for him. Not scolding, understanding what’s going on because something is, outside of the norm. Could be the company he keeps, could be feeling crap about academics, could be addiction issues, could be about his sexuality or bullying or any number of things. You have to identify what the problem is/problems are. He might prefer to talk to a counsellor rather than you, but he needs time. If he’s young for his year you might ask school to keep him on until the end of the year while this is being sorted out and start a new school repeating this year.

I think the holiday might be a good way to get away and perhaps try and communicate with your son.

Slightly off topic suggestion but as a circuit breaker, is there any opportunity for him to get interested/involved in either some hard physical work (eg building, farming or landscaping) or helping work (looking after an animal perhaps)? Something with a purpose and that takes mental and physical energy.

A teen without purpose, movement or a sense of shared endeavour is on a pretty hard journey ime. They go off and try to find things that fill those gaps in myriad stupid ways - hanging out in groups and drinking is classic of course, as is acting out. There are better versions like starting a music band but I suspect those are less common now that gaming is so prevalent.

Going to the gym can work- it can bring it's own challenges but can also be very grounding. But martial arts can actually be brilliant, if you find the right club, because it lets them engage with their brute physicality while learning limits.

In the short term though if there's any opportunity to get him engaged with something physical and purposeful it might both bring a sense of release and open the door to discussion of some other options.

If one or more siblings are going then cancelling would be incredibly unfair and worse it would cause resentment among the siblings. Something is wrong and if ds doesn't open up to you he might open to an older sibling so I think you should be doing everything in your power to nurture those relationships. Take the time to really talk to him or have someone else do it. Try and have fun and relaxing times together. I also think its really important he spends time without his phone and SM, he needs time to reflect and process what's going on and he won't get the from tiktok. I get you are furious but you can be furious and supportive too. Something is up with him.

@pageknight19 he’s definitely struggling with something.

Fighting and drinking can be pretty normal for a 14 yo but it’s rare that students defy teachers orders and swear at them. Could he be ND?

I think he could do with the support of his family, time away from the s**t he’s going through, and just have care-free fun for a week with those that love him. He may even open up to you if you just let him relax enough to tell you his troubles.

The holiday is separate from school, but frankly I would consider not sending him back anyway. He’s clearly not happy there/it’s toxic, so I’d discuss with him putting him in the local state school - in fact I’d actually start the process of registering him so he can see that you are serious. Book a visit for after the holiday. Show him you mean business.

But more than that I’d arrange family counselling. You are clearly much older parents and raising a boy today is different to when you raised your older boys 20 years ago - and maybe you need support in learning how to connect with him and to understand his needs. There is more than a generation gap at play here.

Go on the holiday, maybe he will start opening up to one of you while there. If not, at least it will give you all a bit of space to get your heads around things. I do hope you get to the bottom of things, it's hard to help people when don't understand the root of it all.

While home, looking for another school make him work. Not just keep up with some semblance of studies but make him help around the house too. Install that there's no free ride in this, if not at school he works. I would take away his devices too, for a while and give him very limited time out the house hanging around friends if can't be trusted without drinking & vaping. Some clubs can be useful too, making new friends and also improving behaviour and not sure if family therapy? Hopefully what he is feeling/getting to him may all come tumbling out. Best of luck OP, sounds a tough time for all.

That's when the brothers can help. The eldest could be his father when you think about it.

Having gone and going through this in our family punishment isn't the way to go. We've seen a miraculous improvement with help from professionals, the school once they understood and family members.

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He now goes to a nearby city and hangs around with other boys who he considers closer friends but he’s currently grounded
This'll be why his behaviour is getting worse.
You need to find out what happened 2 years ago when this started.

Also you need to stop him going out drinking. You say it as if there's nothing you can do ??? You ground him for as long as it takes.

A lot of 14 yos do enjoy holidays with their parents!!And even if they don’t initially want to go I’d say 90% of kids will actually have a great time/ have done great times!

Take the holiday.
Don't be tempted to splurge extras on him. Take his phone for the duration and remember that DSq4 does not participate in the same adult activities as his older brothers - drinking, vaping etc.
Talk about having to find a new school with his brothers.

Your youngest son needs more parenting attention, boundaries and communication for the next few years. He needs to grow wiser before having more responsibility.
Install parental controls on screens, insist on meeting deadlines and following school rules. He needs to reset his humility.
He is arrogantly taking advantage of you.

He might also be hiding some personality and mental health difficulties. Be prepared to get him some counselling.

It can seem humerous but at the extreme of poorly behaved, aimless, young males is the statistic of increasied suicide, poor education outcomes and addiction problems. Get him into a school and back meeting his school boy obligations and making kind, positive friendships.

My son is dyslexic and at the same age was in bottom sets for a lot of subjects where you do get kids who mess around partly because they are not engaged because they can’t access the lessons as easily. For a time my son messed around (nowhere near as bad as your son sounds) but we took a consistently tough line, and things improved. You do need to be aware of how incredibly disruptive your son is being to other kids’ learning. You need to get on top of this quickly - why is it happening? Work from there. The holiday is the least of your worries frankly.

What does your DS do as a job for interest please? I'm seriously wondering if Uni debt is worth it for my DCs. TIA x

What changed?

Could he have been sexually assaulted or molested? Bullied? Is he struggling mentally? Is he depressed, anxious? Is he ND?

I would try to understand the root cause of his issues, and see a professional. The vaping and drinking will only compound any mh issues.

I would approach him on your own with love and compassion and share your concerns. Ask him if anyone has hurt him - it may even be someone in your own family.You’ve noticed all these changes, and it seems to have come out of the blue. Anything he says to you is in confidence, and you want to support him.

I wouldn’t cancel the holiday as that really punishes everyone but him. He’ll just have more time to drink and vape with mates.

I’d use the time to try and build some bridges. A good opportunity for him to see the relationships his brothers have with each other and you. I wouldn’t use it as a time to dwell on his behaviour.

Separately, I’d sit him down and look at what his options are going to be if he does get expelled. Ideally it’d be a school located somewhere that meant he wouldn’t be able to see his current group of friends.

It sounds like he feeds off drama to be honest, so I’d try and be matter of fact.

Do you honestly think cancelling will change anything or will make any difference whatsoever? Other people miss out for no reason

He has issues so work on addressing them will achieve more than cancelling a holiday

My son was like this. It was ADHD causing the inattention and the ODD side of it causing him to talk back to teachers as he reacts badly to perceived criticism. Not an excuse but everything then made sense when he was diagnosed.

He now takes medication that helps focus - but he is at anew school now. Going to new school also got him away from his bad influence vaping friends.

ADHD combined with teenage is no fun.

Don’t cancel the holiday. He probably doesn’t want to go anyway so you’re actually rewarding him by not going.

I would go on the holiday and hope one of his brothers can talk some sense into him.

Maybe arrange visits to local comprehensive schools when you get back so he can see the difference? I would keep him away from the friends he’s drinking with though. Where does he get money from?

Your DH is right, you'd be punishing everyone else (and I imagine your DS might be secretly relieved not to be trapped with two parents who are, understandably, cross with him away from his home comforts).

In your shoes I would still go but remove much of the freedom he would usually have on holiday. Since he's shown you that he can't be trusted to behave sensibly, he'll have to spend his holiday attached to you and DH (where you have plenty of opportunity to talk about his future). It might not be the most fun holiday for you and DH, but you can tag team so you both get a break. And it shows him he's not the centre of the universe...plans continue regardless of his actions, he just doesn't get to enjoy them as much.

I was very much like your DS at 15.

In my case, looking back, I think undiagnosed (and misunderstood) ADHD was a significant factor - private schools weren’t used to managing SEN when I was his age.

Team that with very poor parenting at home, and it was a recipe for disaster, and no wonder I was off the rails. The school did let me stay until 18 though despite threatening expulsion at 16.

Punishment didn’t work for me as it didn’t relate to the “crimes” and my parents were very lax with boundaries (also older parents) and muddled in their approach.

In my case, I naturally became “better” as I got older and could do things in my own time, and on my own terms. You wouldn’t know now that I had the issues I did as a teen - I’m actually a fairly well put together human, so it might not be like this forever!

@Coffeeathovimaand @SucksToBeYou why don’t you both grow up?

This is good advice. The holiday might be a chance for better communication. And to relax a bit, when it's often easier to work out the best solutions rather than when everyone is super stressed. Good luck!
I wouldn't be too stressed about the drinking and vaping (although I wouldn't tell him that). But the rest is concerning.