For believing the drop in birth rate IS mostly because people who don't want children no longer have to have them

[CurdinHenry]

"Fertility experts" like Geeta Nargund in the news again insisting that "people still want to have children". Obviously some people wish they could have more children than they get to have. But it's never been a better world for people who are just not into it at all (or try one then realise it's not that much fun).

I don't think a survey asking people in vague terms if they'd like kids one day counts as proof of anything.

Umm I have a 19yo DD and can attest that she was most definately partying at 14. She was an absolute tearaway 14-16 then enjoyed pubs, clubs and boyfriends 16-19.She spent last year travelling and is now studying medicine she turned 20 last week. She herself says of fresher's week she has been there and done that. As I say we may be outliers but I was just the same.

Ok.

You were out partying and playing the field at 14!? 😱

yup London childhood in the '90s.

Whether or not a person wishes to have children I really hate this modern trend of treating the 20s like an extension of adolescence. I hated it when I was this age, I remember being quite sad that my university days were over but I felt ready to grow up. I don't think it does people this age any good really.

Bc it's a smaller population, of course it would use less resources.

I think you are correct, speaking from my own experience of course bc what else can I do? I am in a loving and happy marriage and we are financially very secure. However I have always known that I would never want kids and told my now husband when we met that he better jog on if he wants kids bc I will never want them. He hadn't really thought about whether he actually wanted them and just assumed he had to have them and quickly realised that he also doesn't want them. None of my close friends have kids either, all in well paying jobs with loving partners but kids just don't appeal in any way or fit into their lives. Is this anecdotal, probably, but I do agree that the number one reason is bc many just don't want them.

Bloody hell! I'd be mortified if my 14 year old daughter was doing that and being known as a little tearaway certainly isn't a positive thing. It's odd you think everyone should behave like that and crack on with popping the kids out.

I am sure my mother was mortified. I certainly wasn't celebrating when DD told me she had had sex about a month before she turned 15. However it turned out just fine for both of us and ultimately I think it is in the genes....thank god for contraception and PSHE.

Exactly.

That's an interesting quote. SATC, which personally I didn't have much time for, did come out with some interesting things.

My husband and I are 31 and our parents are all boomers… and not particularly old. Boomer generation was born up until 1964.

People do continue to have babies until menopause....it's just not as likely.

Its not as if every woman was having babies that late is it?

Nothing in that study contradicts what I said?
Nor does it prove your claim, that most infertility is due to age. One study being on age-related infertility doesnt show that there arent any other reaons for fertility issues 🙄

Might have quoted the wrong poster, apologies if so.

Well, you can easily look up the stats, and you will see that it is true for the time period Im refering to.
Both my grandmothers had babies into their 40s, it was normal then (1950s), as it is normal now (eastern european catholic, big familes).
Possibly you are younger than me so different time period?

The common perception of 35 is completely wrong. Its literally not even called advanced maternal age any more. Even at 40 it doesnt fall off a cliff, just accelerates faster.

Such a big decision, after years of not wanting children, I changed my mind when I approached 30 and had two children, and so very pleased we did, they are adults now, older one has left home.

I seem to remember 35 being the cliff edge for things like trisomies rather than infertility.

Of the females i was friendly enough with at school to still be acquaintances (we are all 36+), there's a pattern of either lots of children, or none. One had 6 (sadly lost one as a newborn) Three of them have 5 kids (one had one of the 5 stillborn) one has 4, three had 3 (one who lost one who was a preemie). The other majority is having none at all (myself included).

I know of several others who are friends of friends with 3 or more, and don't know anyone personally i can think of who has kids, with less than 2.

Sadly i have 2 friends with infertility who've tried 10+ years to have a baby with their husbands and it hasn't happened.

Seems a lot of all or nothing in my circle, they're either really wanted and have multiple, or they don't have any.

That’s because a lot of people are in education into their twenties and don’t grow up as quick as kids did in the past who left school at 16 and straight into a full time job . You were treated as adult and were expected to behave like one, plus people were more relaxed about teens frequenting pubs and nightclubs . If you looked old enough you got in but there wasn’t the amount of stabbings and spiking was unheard of .

This is also completely untrue. There is a gradual but still small risk in increase of trisonomies with age.

@Halloweener Yes, people stay in education longer nowadays, but that doesn't mean that they can't behave like adults while still in education. My DD (21) is still in education but is very much an adult - we still give her some financial support, but otherwise she manages her own life. It would worry me if she still behaved like a teenager.

I've read your reply several times, and still don't understand what your point is.

I can believe it's linked to education. When I was a 21-22 year old expressing discomfort at no longer having the reassuring structure of education and yet not feeling fully accepted into the world of adulthood going back to education was presented as the solution by a lot of people. Most of us can't do so indefinitely though and it can be a lot of wasted money when done for the wrong reasons.

I'm torn as I agree that I bet a lot of teens got into situations that they weren't mature enough to handle in the past. I still can't help think that someone who was a bit wild at age 14 is more likely to have better life chances than a failed to launch 30 year old.