For believing the drop in birth rate IS mostly because people who don't want children no longer have to have them

[CurdinHenry]

"Fertility experts" like Geeta Nargund in the news again insisting that "people still want to have children". Obviously some people wish they could have more children than they get to have. But it's never been a better world for people who are just not into it at all (or try one then realise it's not that much fun).

I don't think a survey asking people in vague terms if they'd like kids one day counts as proof of anything.

A lot more young people seme to be happy to not have children- they want different things from life.

Then you have a lot of people who do but leave it too late or can't afford it. And a lot more people happily having an only child- due to cost and also lifestyle. They don't want the commitment of a bigger family. When I was a kid I was one of only 3 only children in my year of 90kids. Now half the couples I meet say they just want 1!

I think you're over-simplying. There are generally lots of reasons for such a large societal change. The one you mention is one of them.

From an environmental perspective the most cost effective way of reducing pollution and climate change is contraception/ reduction in global population.

I feel like a lot of it is because there’s a massive expectation that your life pretty much revolves around your new children now. So many hobbies and pumpkin patch days and craft weeeknds and blah blah
when I was young we played outside with our friends a lot and we had a hobby at different times (like swimming lessons) but not 4 days a week activities plus play dates plus this plus that

sounds like a total drag to have young kids now

There are still plenty of cultures in the UK where marriage and children are not optional, at least for women.

I feel as if there are certain topics that just do the rounds in the press, with no rhyme or reason

And it looks like this is one of them

The idea that women are too stupid to make a decision about whether or not they want to have children really annoys me.

periodically, we get these “experts” talking about “crisis”. One of many reasons I don’t do mainstream media now. Every boring topic you can think of is a crisis.

I thought I read somewhere recently that roughly the same proportion of women are not having children (approx 1 in 5) but the birth rate is declining because the ones that do, are simply having fewer of them. I can’t provide a source but it makes sense for a variety of reasons: financial constraints (cost of childcare and the need for two working parents these days), age (if you don’t start having children until your thirties then you have less time/opportunity to create a big family) and a general desire for a better quality of life (previously it was normal for children to share bedrooms, to not go on holiday etc. whereas nowadays people want to have these things). If the government really wants to increase the birth rate then they should focus on improving these aspects rather than trying to convince child-free people that they should have kids.

My understanding is that a third of women are reaching the end of their child bearing years without having children, but only 5% are voluntarily childless. That’s a big difference. Also, a lot of women are having fewer children than they wanted because they are having them later. There’s a huge rise in only children.

Of the six of us in my friendship group who don’t have children, only one is childfree by choice. Two weren’t able to conceive and three didn’t meet anyone in time. Out of those five women who weren’t childless by choice, two say they are childless by choice when asked because the alternative conversation is too difficult for them to have.

Research will never be accurate on such an emotive topic.

Totally agree. Women have been brought up treated as equals to men in terms of education and career opportunities and they realise they like it. Thry like the money it provides and the lifestyle. They like going to the theatre, cinema, outdoor sports, outdoor sports holidays, fitness, fashion, having a lithe body, going to art galleries and museums, hobbies, crafts etc. They see friends having to give a lot of these things up for years when the have kids and quite frankly they can’t be bothered. Not everyone finds potty training and peppa pig stimulating.

How does one passively not want them? Surely you either use BC or you don't, and you know what the likely consequence is.

Eh? Once the older people die they are no longer a burden. Then if fewer people for the next generation, generation after that then less resources is used, no?

Have to start somewhere, keep having more and more babies to care/pay for the older generation is simply kicking the can down the road - and it's unsustainable.

I think it's a multi factor issue.
It is more acceptable in society not to have children.

Then there is the fact that many people are having less.
It is more acceptable to be one and done.
There are an awful lot of women who have experienced very poor maternity and antenatal care. Poor care makes you less likely to want to do it all again. Especially if that poor care has resulted in birth traumas and or birth injuries. I know quite a few women who are been gas lit about treatment for traumatic birth injuries.
The lack of wider family support as well as near on useless DP's. I would love to have more than 2 but in reality I need much more grandparent or wided support in order to do so. My DH is excellent but there are times when we just need someone else to be able to look after the DC - attending antenatal scan appointments for example - yes I could go on my own but after 2 miscarriages that were only found in the scans I really want my DH in the room with me.
More and more women are having children later or encountering fertility problems. Fertility treatment is expensive and once you have one child you need to self fund for a second.
Childcare, despite funded hours is still expensive. Having 2 children in day nursery together is expensive. Which means either spacing children out so one is in school when one in nursery - which then contributes to parent ages.
Parent ages is another one, if you start at 30 if you are spacing out for cheaper nursery you are looking at one at 30, one at around 33, if you want a 3rd that's another around 36. By the time you get to 35 fertility is dropping. Some women are starting peri menopause in their late 30s.

Expense:
A third child means you need a bigger car - 3 car seats. Bigger cars are more expensive to run and tax. Holidays are more expensive. Days out are more expensive, many places still have family tickets as 2 adults 2 children. If you live in a 3 bed, 2 children have their own rooms a 3rd child means someone has to share or you move to a 4 bed which is more expensive.

I think some people still w at to have kids but most young people are not willing to make the sacrifices having a children require and honestly I feel very sad for it because I think it will create a society that is less tolerable and more egocentric.
certain feelings only come with having children , sorry if this offends anyone but as someone who was convinced I didn’t what any , having them changed my whole view on life and the true meaning of it .

As much as I appreciate the nuance around this, no one I know who has children has every said a positive word about it.

Just "never do it", "I'm so tired and have no money", "I love my boys but if I had my time again i wouldn't start a family".

Of course they love their children dearly but my god if you're childless they don't half make it clear they're jealous

I think people aren't having them because the world is so screwed up, the COL, how few decent men there are.

If I was making the decision again then I wouldn't do it i don't think. Too many unknowns and the stakes are very high (as I've unfortunately encountered).

Women will need to be offered great incentives going forward i think.

I know loads of young people in their 30s who are still single, whereas this was pretty unusual years ago. I know at least some of them wish they were married/settled down.

50 years ago DHs career would have easily have paid for a family with his wife not working. It would have been much easier to move to a larger home too.

If I think of my childless friends. 2 never met anyone. 1 can’t, didn’t adopt or seem interested in that, and has lots of dogs instead. Another one can’t and adopted 3 children. 2 never wanted them. 1 met her husband around 39, had a massive white wedding several years later and only wanted to try after.Shocked to discover she was no longer fertile/too old for IVF in her health authority at 45 and has been quite angry since.

Yeah but if everyone has 1 child, rather than 2, you get long-term population decline. There will be a lot more old people than young until they start having 2 kids on average again.

I reckon loads of young people aren't even having sex any more. Most have to live with their parents well into their 30s because everything is so expensive. How on earth can they be expected to start families when they can't afford a house?

I have never understood the concern around falling birth rates. In 1900 there were a billion humans, then in the 20th century the birth rate exploded. By 1960 the global population had tripled to three billion. It's now eight billion!!!😧.

Yes the birth rate is falling Europe, but in Africa it is so high the African population is going to double – right in the middle of climate change.

I have 2 and would loved to have more but we just couldn't afford it. If I had more kids I'd also want to quit my job and be a SAHM, which again I couldn't afford to do.

This may be one of the reasons 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think it's because people have chosen to have fewer children, but I don't think that's always the same as not wanting them. They've chosen not to have children in the situation they find themselves in, that doesn't mean they wouldn't have chosen to have them (or more) if things were different.

I think this is just one reason, but there are plenty of others. Such as,

• Later marriage/meeting partner later so fewer childbearing years available.
• More opportunities for women outside of child rearing.
• Economic factors and life style choices. Children are expensive, many people now choose to have just one or none.
• Environmental reasons, increasing number of people concerned with the impact population growth is having on the planet.
• Higher rates of infertility.
• changing priorities and unequal domestic workloads, particularly as many women now work.
• Generations ago conditions were poor and infant mortality rates were higher, people had larger families to compensate. Especially as children helped to provide for the family and looked after the older generation.

Speculation and anecdotes and ‘I think’ are pointless, there are statistics and research that answer this question. I can’t really be bothered to dig up the links - particularly since OP herself apparently couldn’t be bothered to search for them - but I’m pretty sure I’ve seen research showing that the proportion of women having 0 children by the end of their childbearing years hasn’t significantly shifted for a while, what’s changed is that the people who do have children are having smaller families.

I’m happy to be contradicted on this if someone has evidence to back it up, but a thread full of ‘here’s this guess about what’s going on that I’ve just pulled out of my arse’ is pointless