AiBU to get fed up of people running our schools down.

[Washandblowdryplease]

I get that not every school is perfect and people have specific and individual issues with this or that. However, every thread on education seems to take it for granted that our system is dreadful. In the 3 big global rankings we are currently placed 4th, 6th, and 16th. We are in the top 10 for all 3 subjects compared by PISA scores. To me that suggests that we actually have a pretty decent system.

We also have 4 of the top 10 universities and are ranked 2nd for research quality in higher education.

Links provided so that you can see the data yourself

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-education

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/education-training

I don't know if I agree with that. I found the curriculum contracted as a result of the Gove reforms, and while I think that standards are good, I think the curriculum is too narrow.

It's all Maths, English and science and in my son's school there was only room for three other GCSE choices. Although the school taught three languages, you could only do one. Many schools only let you do history or geography, not both (though that wasn't the case in my son's school, and he did do both).

I know there's a lot of focus on STEM but we need other skills and interests too.

3 in addition to the core subjects? We chose 3, back in 2006. So I wouldn’t say that’s any different.

We live in a leafy suburb in an expensive area, with high achieving graduate professional parents, who aim to pass their skills onto their DC. Several local comprehensives are in the top 100, thanks mainly to these parents imo.

Totally agree about the primary school stuff. My two are ages with your oldest. But, did you read the homework thread on here? OMG, the parents were shameless. They don't agree with it so their children just didn't do it! I think it's the link between school and home.

Do you think it's your school or all schools?

About your youngest. My oldest had unidentified difficulties. He was diagnosed dyspraxic by an OT. But he had a great primary teacher who allowed him to use a gigantic pencil he won at the fair to do his work as she could see it was more comfortable for him 😂. Great teacher.

He did get the extra time, though not scribes, for exams.

He is now, ironically, a secondary school teacher.

I do think children are being failed. For many reasons. First, the closure of special schools by Thatcher. Second, and most important imo, because children are being sent to school in nappies, can't use cutlery, swipe a book because they have never seen one, and have never been told "no" at the same time as never having been socialised.

I don't think the schools are at fault, they just have to pick up the pieces of poor parenting and, unfortunately, children like yours are caught up in the mess.

I mean 18 year olds that can read or who have the concentration span to watch a You Tube video, can learn how to cook and do housework, it isn't really the hardest part of becoming an adult.

Completely agree. When people criticise the UK education system they are rarely talking about grades. It's children not being protected from bullying, having to share classes with violent children, missing out on class time because of antiquated uniform rules.

If a teenager comes out of school with 10 good GCSEs and mental scars from bullying or violence, I say they have been failed.

I think the problem is the actual volume of pupils who have SEN needs. We are a high performing comprehensive. In our year 7 cohort there are nearly half of students with needs. Of course the degree of needs varies, but this creates huge challenges for school staff. No extra funding for the majority, so how can schools meet everyone’s needs? You can’t teach a year 7 class, if a few use fidget toys, a few have SEN reset cards, a load have toilet passes or medical cards, and many who are demanding and disruptive.
Ask any teacher what makes their job the most stressful and I bet they will say the behaviour of pupils. Support staff are leaving in droves.
We can’t employ TAs, they are a huge asset to any school, but paid peanuts and deal with the most challenging pupils. Two left to work in Waitrose and said their jobs are ten times more enjoyable now, they get a great staff discount and it’s so much easier. It’s a no brainer.

Again, this is a failing in society and doesn't mean education is working or good.

Yes, that's what I mean. The curriculum is too narrow.

Also, our school is in a deprived area with a higher proportion of free school meals (well, before they extended them) and I think that impacts things like trip and events - parents can't afford it. Things like world book day are Pyjama days because parents can't afford outfits. The school is not well off either and can't afford to subsidise the children who can't pay for trips, so they don't happen.

I agree and their children sense it. If the parents don't care or have any respect for teachers or the education system, why should they?

yeah I only picked 4 in 1996. one language, one humanity, one tech and something else.

My kids' primary was amazing. Their secondary was ok - not super inspiring, but not failing either.
I like the educational system here more than in my home country.

Yes they’re taught they’re a ‘service user’ and the school is there to treat them like a customer. The school should of course have a duty of care and a responsibility to provide a decent level of education, but the parents seem to think this translates to they can have whatever they like.

Parents are failing their children. Everytime a child is reprimanded for their behaviour, the parent kicks off and shows the child that they don't care for rules. I am part of a Facebook group for my DSs year and one mum was fuming that her DD had been given reflection due to throwing pens around the room in lesson. Apparently it's the teacher's fault because the lesson wasn't interesting enough! While you have parents like that, nothing will change.
I have 2 DCs with SEN and they are polite, hard working and respectful. They know I'd come down on them like a tonne of bricks if they ever disrupted the lesson or were rude to a teacher/classmate.

A culture that the Schools, the Governments (over the years) themselves have encouraged by their over reliance on Analytical data, where students are not seen as human beings who are worthy of human interaction or localised consideration more of a number in a data set, schools becoming increasingly places where humans are just seen as cold, detached cyborgs!

Speak for yourself except you're not are you, do you honestly believe you are the only person with well behaved, polite and hardworking children - you state your point like you have popped some balloon of delusion for us all!

Again, this is just hyperbole, rose tinted glasses firmly on, do you honestly think parent were overwhelming supportive of teachers back in the day? What era are you discussing here, the 1950s? Back in the day there were shit teachers and some very good ones. I'm sure it's the same now.

Blimey some people really are glass half full (if that) cyborgs?

Anyone would think in the past schools churned out fully accomplished 16 year olds. Schools give pupils a basic, broad education which allows them to them choose their next steps.

What were others like at 16? Ready to get going fixing washing machines or about to write the next big novel?

Schools do have problems, some more than others. But each day we have to send our teen to class, we could, I reckon, completely screw him up, tell him life isn’t fair, that he didn’t deserve that detention, that telling teachers they are mindless sheep and they can’t control him because he can see through their brainwashing lies, or whatever other wonderful ways you can mess up your own child. Or we can send him in positive, ready to learn, respectful of teachers and if he disagrees to raise that disagreement politely and clearly, with the willingness that an explanation might change his mind.

Secondary schools only care about top sets. All other classes are mixed ability apart from top, so everyone else is screwed.

I am now having to pay for maths tutoring, because the classes are so disrupted as the naughty kids are now spread out and the teachers can't cope.

It must be just as frustrating for the teachers as the parents tbh. But unless you can afford tutoring, there isnt much hope unless you have a top set child across the board.

If you have a good school or even better urban location with several good schools with places to move to with an acadmic child - so middle to top sets - you are likely golden.

If you in an area with one school - rural - or selection of poor ones or no places in good maybe one good one - where even top sets do not offer protection from disruption and low expecations - or your child is in good school but low sets ( DN) or your child has SEN/ND or disablity it's very often much more a lottery - or dependent on parents making some arragement to pick up peices.

That will lead to very different view of the education systems.

My ND/SEN kids went in with good attitudes - according to actual teachers - and thanks to huge amounts of home support and money got through a very poor school with very good to decent results - they did well despite the school not because of it.

Many in worse position than our family didn't get the needed grades in English and maths resticting their prospects post 16.

I do think that schools have too much that not edcuation shoved onto them - I do think many parents have a poor attitude to education and school staff - I also know schools can create a very adversial atmosphere with parents who want to work with them - as I and parents I know have experienced that.

I think staying quite about issues in schools will mean nothing changes - while I also agree most pupils are fine in current systems but surely wanting more of them to have positive experiences and good prospects isn't unreasonable either.

I certainly think that there is always the ability to improve and it should always be the aim. However, many people on here ( including on this thread) make it sound like schools are terrible places failing everyone. I just wanted to point out that internationally England's education system punches pretty high up the list. For a great many children it does what it is intended to do. It educates them so that they can move on with qualifications and choices.