AiBU to get fed up of people running our schools down.

[Washandblowdryplease]

I get that not every school is perfect and people have specific and individual issues with this or that. However, every thread on education seems to take it for granted that our system is dreadful. In the 3 big global rankings we are currently placed 4th, 6th, and 16th. We are in the top 10 for all 3 subjects compared by PISA scores. To me that suggests that we actually have a pretty decent system.

We also have 4 of the top 10 universities and are ranked 2nd for research quality in higher education.

Links provided so that you can see the data yourself

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-education

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/education-training

Teenagers complaining about their parents, wow, what a shocker!

I had to go and do really world stuff for a bit and now there are far more people than I can reply to individually.

There are a lot of sweeping statements about schools failing. Not much evidence base I have seen apart from the mental health article. I will point out in rebuttal that schools are 1 issue in the mental health of teens but one of the biggest changes is the social media pressures.

No exams aren't everything they are however a major plank of what schools do. I strongly feel that it is up to parents to step up for some of the things that schools are less able to cover. I would much rather help my child appreciate music and culture than try to teach them GCSE languages.

The Arts shouldn't be a peripheral option, they should be a core element of an 'education'. There is loads of research that highlights the benefits to child development, intelligence and inturn social and academic outcomes. Arts provision is not something that can be outsourced to parents as many parents don't have access to cultural experiences or any knowledge to impart. Quite apart from anything the UK's creative industries contributes £145 billion to the economy, I don't think we should be so quick to dismiss the Arts something for the parents to teach.

I'm not really dismissing the arts. I feel they are an area that does need improvement. However, I still feel that the key factor that overall the system does give a good level of education is one that many people here are just ignoring or dismissive of.

School in UK in my experience are great until they get to secondary school. This is when the money shifts from needs to high performance and unfortunately teachers and school favor those that are very able as opposed to all.

Try working in a school and listen to the stories about parents.
I wouldn’t have told a member of staff anything about my parents, now they tell us everything.
And it’s rarely positive.
So it’s ironic all the negative stories on here about schools.

But the incorporation of the Arts, great provision, integration of the Arts is an 'essential" part of what can be considered a 'good' education.

You can do arts out of school though. You can’t do advanced mathematical theory, it’s harder to do languages, physics, chemistry. If anything is to be squeezed out of the timetable it ought to be arts.

I doubt they all do, a certain kind of child, yes.

A teenager discussing their parents faults doesn't really tell us anything about the quality of education being delivered, it just demonstrates a lack of boundaries. It's not like teenagers in the past didn't talk about the merits or more likely, frustrations they had with their parents, it's just not something they would have discussed with their teachers. Basically, it tells us nothing about the state of parents today!

Agree. A school that gets good maths, English and science results at the expense of other subjects, may on paper be considered a good school but is not in my mind a good school.

I do appreciate OP that our schools are considered good on paper by the measures set, I just think the measures are wrong. I also don't see it as an issue with the individual schools, but they way education policy has taken it.

Not sure this is completely true, being a fully invested and involved parent, I am able to see the difference given to children in secondary based on academic level, it's quite shocking, having both academic and 'normal' kids with both the same parenting. It boils down to the funding switch between KS 2 and 3.

Well you can't if you have no access to cultural experiences, either due to your parents lack of income, interest or familiarity. You can absolutely access lessons on Physics, Advanced Maths etc. for free actually. It depends entirely what you understand an 'education' to be but if it's just a place you believe is an 'exam factory' where you prioritise the subjects you have highlighted, in the long run the UK is going to suffer, science and advanced maths is not going to solve some of the most pressing problems we have at the moment and quite apart from anything as I have just pointed out, neglecting subjects that contribute a significant amount to our economy, is very short sighted!

lots can't cook because parents are afraid that a visit to a&e for a burn will mean a social services referral
This is rubbish and not the reason people don't cook with their kids! It's due to money, lack of food or plain laziness.

There are a lot of sweeping statements about schools failing.

I thought most people accepted Scotland and Wales had huge problems in their educational systems.

With each countries state education the difference between the good school and poor ones is also often huge. My DC school blames it's dire results behind low sociel economoic intake but other areas with similar or worse intake do better. Same with some school in good areas some of them rely heavily on outside tutoring.

If you child has SEN/ND/disablity - you often get to see a very different side to schools than if that not the case. I've known parents with NT kids who though schools was great till the SEN/ND next child got there are then they saw a very different side.

I think generally the English system and UK system more genernally is holding up - often at expense of some kids mental health and the work load of many teachers getting very heavy. However most people post when there are issues - and not every school is doing well and not every child in a school dong well will be having the best experience.

Even Uni scetor is undergoing massive problems - often around funding but also around cuts and job losses - those do hit the news biut overall we still massivly punch above our weight with research.

Criticising the edcuation system is not the same as blaming teachers or staff for failing and it's often done because people want change - they want inprovements to happen - they tends to be less presure for change or more resouces if anyone sit round saying how well things are going. Also for some kids SEN/ND kids thing are not going well at moment and many are being pushed out of the edcuation system entirely leaving parents to fight or pick up the peices.

Scotland has never had PRUs.

England it says.

Endless adjustments - hall passes, sensory rooms, ear defenders, fidget toys, reduced timetables, flexible seating/uniforms, no cold calling, visual aids, leaving class or school a few minutes early to help with transitions…

Absolutely none of which was available in 1996 when I started school

So tailored adjustments for those who have SEND, so not the majority of Pupils? Equally, there were SEND provisions in the 90s, arguably more funding for SEND Pupils in the late 90s. Fidget Spinners etc. Was the research even around on the use of these?

Yet there was a record number of children leaving school this year with qualifications.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c07rv3lykp8t

OP, @Washandblowdryplease I was a staunch supporter of state education, as was DH. DH was a school governor for 10 years.

Until DD2 went to secondary school in 2020, was diagnosed with ASD and ADHD and was completely and utterly failed by the school and the County Council. Not only that but became aware of friends' similar experiences and those of others up and down the country on Not Fine in School

I don't know how anyone could be aware of that and defend the system. It's a fucking shitshow.

Secondary schools are failing their pupils. My starting point is to remove the pressure to attend A levels & university. I presume this plus private schools keep the UK at the top.
I'd be interested in how many pupils go to university (statistic 1 a positive for the school and widely published) and dropp out rates after 18 months (statistic 2, brushed under the carpet).

Which is a shame. They do SO MUCH good both for those attending and those who used to have the attendee in their mainstream class.

What’s to say the qualifications haven’t been dumbed down? That’s why PISA score are vital. They give a 3rd party reflection of a stated education system.

I'm not sure what hall passes are - but toilet passes started being a thing at DC secondary school.

Why becuase the toilets were locked and only unlocked for every limited periods of time meaning they were near impossible to access - they were sort of theoretically there. Truancy rates went up with girls and many with medical conditions who'd previously coped with break and lunch times couldn't.

Same with nosie defencers - if they had the 90s level of noise they wouldn't have been neccessary.

I think there also suggestions that fidgit devices are more needed as so much play time been cut from school days - meaning kids that used to cope no longer do.

There are also more SEN kids in main stream schools as that was policy - so it's now really hard to get spealist school places. It's unclear if there are actaully more SEN.

I coped in my 90s secondary okay - it was quiet in class could eat and drink at break and access toilets when nessary - my kids are very like me but they struggled more because the classrooms were noisy behavior was poor and they stuggled to do things like eat and access toilets in school day - adding to what they had to cope with.

They have behavioural units and bases.