AiBU to get fed up of people running our schools down.

[Washandblowdryplease]

I get that not every school is perfect and people have specific and individual issues with this or that. However, every thread on education seems to take it for granted that our system is dreadful. In the 3 big global rankings we are currently placed 4th, 6th, and 16th. We are in the top 10 for all 3 subjects compared by PISA scores. To me that suggests that we actually have a pretty decent system.

We also have 4 of the top 10 universities and are ranked 2nd for research quality in higher education.

Links provided so that you can see the data yourself

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-education

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/education-training

Yes, this is an issue.

it’s surprisingly hard to get genuine data on it though, not least because many 4 year olds are really not entirely reliably toilet trained (either now or in the past).

i worked in a primary in the 2000s and every year the reception teacher asked for new parents to send in a spare set of clothes for the children because there were inevitable accidents.

she’d send the class to the toilets in pairs before morning break, before lunch and before afternoon break, and the class had it’s own loos integrated into the reception area (which is standard as many 4 year olds need the loo at short notice).

most of the children in reception had an accident at some point in the year to be honest and some had multiple accidents. But officially they were all toilet trained.

we didn’t have any children in nappies but we did have children with bowel issues - some with allergies, one with crohns - who sometimes needed a whole change.

most 4 year olds are somewhere on the toilet training journey but few are completely reliable. I’d guess that these days there are more who are less reliable as parents tend to start later these days, but most parents are aware that schools expect children to be toilet trained and I’d expect most of the ones that start in nappies to have significant other issues.

From the School Threads here I read of a great deal of disruption to do with children with the inability to be quiet or generally behave. Much is explained by Autism or ADHD. Do we need to re assess the policy of keeping all children together in mainstream education.
One thread I read yesterday a woman was so upset and was feeling a failure because her child was just refusing to go to school. Another boy was getting many detentions and isolation. He said he did not understand the questions.
Is this really the best way of coping with all this? That little boy must be having a miserable time.
(My children are grown up and had a quiet time. So I have not seen much of this myself.)

“and I’d expect most of the ones that start in nappies to have significant other issues.”

A significant number of children without special educational needs or medical diagnoses are arriving at primary school in nappies or pull-ups.

Yeh my DC loved some of their teachers. DS2 really rated his maths teachers (A level maths) and DD was a big fan of her teachers for Eng lit and geog A level and still speaks of them fondly, seven years later.

I had some teachers whom I liked as well tbh. But I don’t think they worked as hard at being teachers in the 1970s and 80s as I had to in the 2000s

Yes. It’s like the NHS. Not the fault of individual teachers/nurses, but failing us all.

Ofsted and PISA say otherwise.90% of schools are rated good or outstanding.

That’s really interesting. Which techniques specifically would you say are ineffective?

As a teacher I would not consider ofsted ratings thd be all and rnd all.

they have boxes that need to be ticked. You can tick them without being a great school and equally some great schools choose not to tick certain boxes

Far-left agitators

It's my understanding that the stats say that there hasn't actually been significant improvement; other countries have just got worse.

And as for some posters who think it's all the fault of "inclusion" - other high ranking countries have significantly stronger and more comprehensive inclusion policies than the UK, whilst maintaining high PISA rankings.

https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/celebrate-englands-school-rankings-but-estonia-teaches-a-better-lesson

Meanwhile the zealots don't think our children are the main priority when it comes to spending our taxes. 🤔

But everyone wants to be the priority and are outraged when they’re not
Pensioners
The disabled
Refugees
Children
VAWG

As a whole our schools are failing our kids. If we cannot go by statistics how do we measure success?
Well done to your kids btw 😁

But most schools are not failing the majority of pupils. Many parents are failing their children and then expect schools to solve all their problems.
It’s easy to blame schools.
i hear many complaints from teenagers about their parents. And many parents do not support schools.

I wonder if the ‘difference in children’ you are seeing is actually a difference in schools. In the past, children were expected to fit in and get on - some suffered in silence, some got punished for being lazy or naughty, some became school refusers, came out of school not being able to read etc. They were struggling but their needs were not recognized or accommodated.

The recent Fonagy report on ADHD and autism commented that mental distress in children was genuine.

Your daughter’s school sounds lovely. And of course it is entirely possible that they are making accommodations that are unnecessary.

Totally agree. From where I stand, it’s the parents who have no boundaries and expectations on children.

Luckily children only spend 52% days of the year in school.

Schools are there to educate for exams. Almost half of their time is spent at home and that half of the time can be spent on domestic science, art, independence and many other things that don’t lead to exams.

Totally agree

How we are not further down that list is testament to the work most teachers go above and beyond doing, not their failings.

I didn’t say it wasn’t genuine.

Of course they struggled in the past. But they developed a harder shell so even if they didn’t leave with great exam results they would just knuckle down and get a NMW job.

Now everyone is super sensitive and unable to do anything unless it’s exactly what they want.

Agree with those who highlight the failings of many parents.
Agree that many if not most teachers are dedicated and having to deal with the results of non-parenting.

Still think that for a variety of reasons, education is not as good as it was. Two things I think have been significant- the ending of O levels and a poor replacement (good idea, poor execution), and the drive for more people to be at university and making apprenticeships seem an outcome of failure.

they arent just for exams. Exams are a way to evidence what you have learned but there is merit in learning without doing an exam at the end. Children stop a lot of subjects when they pick thier options but the stuff they learned to that point still has value. My ds has sen and hasn't done many exams. Just english and maths functional skills but he still did lots of other things that help him take an active role in society and hopefully employment. They couldnt all be done at home.

And you can do exams in art and food.

And that is exactly what I think is wrong with education today and why I think schools are failing children.

And why I think society at large is falling children.

Parents have equally more AND less time with their kids due to the way society has developed. Few families have a main care giver at home and children spend longer in childcare than ever before. The time they do spend with parents/ at home is expected to be "quality time" and children are doing more activities and less functional tasks - because we are told activities help educational prospect and "good" parents do that for their kids. As a society we no longer consider good parenting to be allowing our 7,8,9 year olds out to the park by themselves. As a result children are less capable of resolving problems - in friendships and in doing tasks like crossing roads and putting on coats. For the sake of ease and speed (including in school) most shoes are velcro rather than laces. Few primary age children do any meaningful chores - lots can't cook because parents are afraid that a visit to a&e for a burn will mean a social services referral and expecting children to do laundry grow the lawn is practically neglect.

I’ve wondered about this too. There are 7 SEND kids in my dc’s class and in the (albeit limited) times I’ve observed the class the teacher seems overwhelmed. The school is well rated and and has high attainment rates but it became apparent very quickly that those attaining high grades are in the main getting outside tuition from very early on, and I think that’s masking how much the school is struggling. It’s my only experience of the current school system so I’m no position to comment on the uk as a whole, but in my area at least tutoring is big business, from all the primary schools in the area. Funding is also a huge issue, parents had to fundraiser a new boiler etc for the school as the old one kept being ‘fixed’ which only ever last two mins.

What is this 'tailored support' you talk of, not unless you are worth it as academically exceptional or have SEND. Equally, past papers are not given out at every school, just more encouragement to go on a screen and find them in your own time and actually revision lessons are useless if that's not how you learn I.e. with the noise and disruption of the rest of the class but no choice to revise at home even though you are 16!

Performance targets,

Performance targets, data analytics, a neglect of the Arts, AI lessons and marking. No more support for pupils than in my 90s comp just lip service to this.