AiBU to get fed up of people running our schools down.

[Washandblowdryplease]

I get that not every school is perfect and people have specific and individual issues with this or that. However, every thread on education seems to take it for granted that our system is dreadful. In the 3 big global rankings we are currently placed 4th, 6th, and 16th. We are in the top 10 for all 3 subjects compared by PISA scores. To me that suggests that we actually have a pretty decent system.

We also have 4 of the top 10 universities and are ranked 2nd for research quality in higher education.

Links provided so that you can see the data yourself

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-countries-for-education

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/education-training

Completely agree. A child currently operating at an 18mth age gets nothing from being in a y2 classroom for example. The other children can’t concentrate and the child themselves is being failed.

I don't think results are a good measure how well a school treats it's children, prepares them for the future or nurtures them. I also think too much emphasis is placed on academic attainment and not enough on them being well rounded, resilient people.

Schools cutting things like domestic science, art programmes and anything that doesn't lead to an exam is not good for children

I'm far more concerned about them being independent, mentally robust and capable than I am about fantastic exam scores.

And so yes, I do believe our education system is failing our children. And no I don't believe my child is entitled to a particular grade - I do think they are entitled to be curious and inquisitive and explore subjects beyond what is needed for an exam.

Children did not go to school as unprepared in the past as they do now. No child wore nappies in school during the 1940s, 50s, 60s, 70s, or 80s.

Our youngster’s secondary is amazing.
He will leave a well-rounded confident, happy, bright (well 10 GCSEs), fit, healthy young man, with a bunch of equally ambitious and smart friends, a respect and thanks for his teachers and some of the best experiences and memories school can give.

Not sure you can ask for much more.

He has taken advantage of every opportunity put in front of him, works hard, behaves, is fun to be around (socially and emotionally intelligent which helps) and we support him and the school fully.

A secondary pupil gets 5 short school years to grow from a child to young adult, they go to the school parents have a huge say, if not total say in deciding. Why send your child, or keep your child in a school you disagree with?

This is just not true.

from just my personal experience alone I had friends that worked in special schools in the 1980s and plenty of children were in nappies.

Hard disagree. Most of the non-SEN kids beating up kids are bad kids. Theyre not good people. And we’re letting them get away with being bad. Making them think it’s ok. Which just means they’ll be bad adults.

But there isn’t ’academic pressure’. They may feel like school is somehow stressful but there’s no evidence the actual pressure is worse. They don’t get Saturday detentions, or called thick, ‘all behaviour is communication’, there’s so much tailored support and chances to resit.

I think they’re less resilient and therefore school seems more stressful.

We spend record amounts on SEND. Staggering, massive, astronomical amounts.

If it’s not working it’s not because of underinvestment

@clary
as balance balance
our youngster prefers some of his teachers to us 😀(his drama teacher can do NO WRONG for example) there are others - even teachers of subjects he doesn’t take!

He doesn’t even want to study acting.

In special schools, yes. But not in mainstream environments.

We need more special schools and to stop stigmatising them.

Okay, but what about the children coming to mainstream primary schools who aren’t toilet trained? This issue (along with many others) is increasing year on year.

I have no clue where the money goes. It’s not to my school. Believe me. I have no pencils currently. We also have huge classes, no support staff and large amounts of children with SEND with long lists of additional needs that we can’t hope to meet.

Can you really only think of nappy usage?

And of course some of those dc wore nappies!

Independent, mentally robust etc is the PARENTS JOB. Not the schools. You teach them that stuff. It’s called being a parent. Schools are where you send your child to learn knowledge that they build on and build on until they have valuable knowledge to get a well paid job to pay high taxes to improve public services.

Stip palming off your parenting responsibilities onto teachers. It’s so lazy! Their job is to impart knowledge. The rest is your job!

I retired in 2023.

Saturday detentions were very much a thing at my school at least until I retired and they probably still are.

plenty of kids call each other thick.

the uk system has assessments at ages - 11, 16 where many schooling systems have only final examinations or final assessments at 17 or 18.

sats are at 11 and many schools really do a lot of exam practice etc and additional revision sessions. Dc know about their results and those who get below age related expectations are in general fully conscious that they have “failed”.

there’s also the phonics check in year 1 and times tables test in year 4.

even GCSEs are early by the standards of some countries and not passing maths or English can stop many dc getting onto the college course they want.

by contrast in many European countries if you meet the grades for uni entrance you are in and universities take (by contrast with the uk) high numbers of freshers but have a very high drop
out rate.

here uni entry is very competitive and is well known to be so.

Are there more kids with SEN now? How many are SEN?

No they didn’t in mainstream primary schools. The schools wouldn’t have taken children that wore nappies. Parents toilet trained their children when they were toddlers. Children were taught basic skills at home before starting school.

@scoutzxjust because more dc were toilet trained does not mean parenting was better…

@AgeingMillennialSaturday detentions are still a thing!

My school now has 25% SEND. 25 years ago we had about 1 child per class. I once had the only child with MLD and an IEP in my phase. About 15 years ago we started to see an increase in needs and those children all came with 1:1 support. Now we have way more needs, significantly greater needs and 1:1 staff are a thing of the past.

A teachers job is not simply to impart knowledge and that is what is wrong with the education. Teachers should be teaching skills to learn and developing a love of learning and discovery. Not just imparting knowledge.

And parents do have responsibilities for lots of things, but it needs to be supported by school, not at odds with it. Seeing the child as a whole rather than a set of exam scores and attendance data.

In my school in the 80s there were twins in my class who wore nappies in reception and year 1. They then went to a special school.

My neighbours son was in an institution until I was 5 or 6 and there were a few kids in the neighbourhood who were non-verbal and had clear LD, some went to a special school and some just didn't attend school.

Yes but you implied schools ought to nurture. Nurture the children’s learning yes, but not nurture the child as a whole. Thats the issue with schools these days, certainly here in Scotland. They’re run like social working centres rather than centres of learning - and the PISA results here reflect that.

@AgeingMillennial
True about Send spending. I was a sendco, no one ever asked me what the problem was but its pretty simple really, the things that are in Ehcps and the accepted "support" techniques are not evidence based. They dont work.
Plus there are young people with extreme behaviour issues who would have been in prison when I started teaching in the 90s but because of different government policies are no longer given custodial sentences. We are talking about violent assaults with weapons, rape and armed robbery. Schools cant cope with these sorts of problems.
And there are more children with real disabilities who can not thrive in mainstream. Very very few people working in cahms or NHS or schools have any understanding of the depths of the problems. And schools are burdened with experts who dont work in them who have the power to insist on the failed techniques being used again and again. Vicious and very expensive circle. I made a huge number of enemies pointing out all these pretty obvious problems.
On the plus side I did see kids who had been through hideous trauma bravely deal with all sorts of things and try their best every day.
Secondary schools despite the problems are generally happy places where most inmates enjoy their time! I did.

Parents were putting more effort into teaching their children basic skills. Most children sat at a table to eat their meals, knew how to dress and undress themselves etc.