PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

You think Andrew Marr a disabled man shouldn'tclaim PIP why not ? I mean "Appalled" is a bit of an ott reaction. You have no clue what Andrew Marrs needs are.

The Op has said more than once that people who need PIP (like your son) should get it, so I have no idea why you would tell her to Fuck Off?

So you are saying that a mountain of medical evidence was needed for your son, but somehow other people are able to abuse the system by lying, but then asking how they get the medical evidence. Ermm maybe they are not lying, just a thought.

The partner of my colleague claims to have a mental health condition and regular goes to the GP. She was prescribed meds but she doesn't take them.

She knows how to play the system and neither of her parents have even worked officially (they have done cash in hand work though)
My colleague says it's quite easy when you know how. He told me this because my son has a disability but doesn't claim anything for it.

My daughter gets PIP as she has epilepsy. It helps her to be able to work part time (her epilepsy is often triggered by tiredness and she has lost a number of full time jobs due to having to ring in sick as she has had a night full of seizures), helps her pay for taxis and buses (she cannot drive due to the epilepsy).

As she only works part time, because of her epilepsy, she sometimes uses her PIP to buy clothes and go out! I must remember to tell her that she mustn't use her PIP for anything nice from now on.

When people talk about fraud why does no one talk about the fraud by assessors? They said I was cured despite being told several months previously by my consultant there's no cure. They decided I could drive. My parents were told when I was 3 I'd never drive. I still can't read the number plate at 20 metres (I failed the eye test the assessor did) and never will do

In my case they couldn't get a lot of their lies straight. Part of my mandatory reconciliation included 1.5 pages of pointing out the contradictions

I would wager he doesn’t “need” to claim it but is entitled to it so he does. And yes I do find it appalling, not him as a person appalling but that the system is set up so that millionaires and billionaires can claim benefits - this includes pensions etc….

And you haven't reported her because...?

Like I said you have no idea what his care needs are,not a clue

Here's how one conversation roughly went between me and a 21 year old:
Me: "Are you up to much this weekend?"
Them: "I'm off to get a new tattoo because I got paid today"
Me: "Oh I didn't know you had a job. Where do you work?"
Them: "No, I mean my PIP's been paid".
So it's not about people showing me their bank statements or giving me a full breakdown of their income and outgoings, it's about casual conversations such as these.
That's just one example of one conversation I've had. There's nothing I can do to prove it happened but I was there and it did!

The thing with money is it's fungible. So you may well spend your earned money on the extra costs of being disabled and then the PIP money the tattoo. Which really all works out at the same thing. The PIP is what allows you to afford the tattoo you'd have been able to afford if you hadn't had to spend the extra money on your disability.

So is your argument just around the people getting the benefit aren't on the breadline? That's a valid argument to have, to what extent should we means test any benefit, and there's no perfect answer. But it's slightly different from, 'My PIP's come in, I'm going to get a tattoo'

How do we know Andrew Marr claims it? Has he said he does?

My DS (18) gets PIP and if you meet him you'd not realise the extent of his disability. Does he need it no but does he deserve it yes. When we applied we never lied or exaggerated his circumstances, we were honest. He doesn't have any outgoings as luckily were in a position where we fund him. He goes to college and now works pt in family business. He's not due a review until 2029.

Perhaps all PIP claimants should run their purchases past you OP. Has it even occurred to you that the people who claim PIP may be spending the money they already have financing the extra expenses associated with their illness or disability? So perhaps when they are awarded PIP they are able to treat themselves. I hate that my son needs DLA (children’s equivalent of PIP) and I will have no qualms about spending some of the money taking him on a big fat holiday when he feels up to it, after spending two years practically housebound due to OCD and Crohn’s Disease.

I don't know her surname. I don't know her correct address because my colleague uses another address for his 'official' address. They aren't married.

I would have absolutely zero qualms about reporting her if I did, believe me.

It seems v clear to me that for some people, PIP is completely crucial, and must not be taken away. For others, it's a huge waste of taxpayers' money.

I only know one person who gets PIP. She's from an extremely wealthy family, works full time, travels independently around the country, spends the PIP money on expensive hobbies. Has a genuine learning difficulty, but it's not so severe that the PIP money is needed for anything at this point. Perhaps in the future, if trying to live independently of parents, there might be a need for PIP, but definitely not at this stage.

Agree I am Deputy for a disable relative who has multiple disabilities and was cared for by my grandparents till they died in their 80's. Not a penny off the state till they died. The system is broken which means that truly disabled people like my relative lose out as the waiting lists for appointments with SS etc are enormous. I know of people who claim PIP get Motability, UC and then get botox go out all the time. It's become a joke.

As if a billionaire would bother claiming it. They will be spending their efforts reducing their tax bill.

That sounds made up to me. Why would he/she need to go into specifics? Just saying he was getting a new tattoo would be enough. People usually understand that they have to be paid for!🙄

I don’t understand what’s wrong with what she did. She is disabled and can’t/doesn’t work. She claims the benefit designed for disabled people, along with whatever else. It all goes into one pot. And she is using some for a tattoo - you know it’s the same as everyone else, with budgeting right? So getting that tattoo will mean she has less to spend on food or whatever this month. But that’s a budgeting choice she has made.

Have you never made a budgeting choice like that? You’ve never bought a luxury and cut back on an essential for a month? Because that’s what a lot of people do. A disabled person can do that to.

It’s bloody hard for any 21 year old to get a job now, or anyone really. There are not enough jobs. A disabled person has an even tougher time getting a job and keeping it. What is your problem with her budgeting her money the way she chooses to?

The problem with trying to discuss benefits of any type is that people take it personally.

No it’s not that. I’m not interested in the money and who gets what. I’m not “jealous” of disabled people. My point was the system is open to abuse and lots of ailments can be neither proved nor disproved.

I always find it really interesting on these threads that so many people know someone who’s claiming fraudulently but they wouldn’t dream of reporting them. Why not, if you know for absolute certain that they’re committing fraud?

Having had many years of completing DLA and PIP forms for my son, the bit I don’t understand is how people without disabilities can gather proof of their fake disability to be approved for PIP. Yes they could write any old nonsense on the form, but we have always had to provide additional paperwork from medical professionals, therapists etc in support of my son’s claim. I don’t understand how the fakers manage to provide the required evidence.

You don’t need a meeting with social services to claim universal credit or PiP. You could literally do the applications today if you wanted, so go do that. Then they will get some help. There was no need for your grandparents to do all the care without any financial help. Go apply.

It's just how the conversation went. It happened whether you want to believe it or not. People often say they can't wait to get paid because they're going to spend money on x,y or z. I think that's fairly normal.