PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

That sounds familiar. Someone with a disability leaping up, and down. My goodness! You do not live with this person to be able to judge what he can, or cannot do. You have just seen something, and decided that he is getting something that he does not deserve to, in your eyes.

But people do scam the system. If one goes to the dr and says they are experiencing xyz symptom consistently, they will get a diagnosis/treatment. It’s long and tedious but there are people who are willing to dedicate and spend their time doing nonsense like this. I know of someone who fakes a whole MH condition. She was prescribed medication and takes it occasionally , just in case it comes up on the blood tests. She also works but it’s cash in hand so does not declare her income. However, there are people who genuinely need it and they should be supported to claim and make use of the money to support their disability/medical need.

My PIP pays for my car and petrol, that’s literally it. I’ll cover 900 miles getting to the hospital and back this month alone, that’s with multiple appointments compressed into the days as well.

Hoping it gets better because it’s absolutely skinting us but that’s the closest specialist unit to us unfortunately.

The tone in replies shout out a Its bash disabled/pip thread. Was it just a tattoo or their nails done to 💅

I have no idea because I'm not someone who hangs around disability scam coaching groups.

The issue with reducing or removing the state pension is that nearly everyone has it factored into their retirement plans - so removing it needs a big lead time to allow alternative planning.

And - to replace the ~£13k a year of income, requires a pension pot bigger than most people manage to save so… how do you do it in a fair way, which doesn’t penalise those who have tried to save but aren’t so wealthy they can realistically fund a comfortable retirement.

But it is in no way affordable for the state to continue.

It’s a mess!

People want to pay less and less tax (the personal allowance is already large compared to other countries), yet expectations on what the state will provide grow and grow.

Tbh honestly the way i see it there should be a whole bunch of different benefits for different things. I know it would be a lot of work but no one at the DWP actually works atm. Separate ones for physical and mental disability, another separate one for temporary injuries, another for those who can work. All assessed on income so those who can work get less than those who can't get more. Also rehash ESA.

So why bring up the fact they have a tattoo? You clearly think it unacceptable that disabled people should be able to pay for anything non essential.

I don’t have anyone in my life who tells me how they spend their money specifically.

I don’t know if someone has bought something from money they got as pension benefit, child benefit, universal credit. Why do you have so many details @Ljcrow?

I am not entitled to any benefit or PIP and I am very grateful for this. But for the grace of god, any of us could become disabled.

Funny how no one talks about the money wasted on tribunals or the millions going unclaimed each year

Someone on X estimated that £450 million gets spent on tribunals per year. That's just the cost of tribunals and not the cost to the claimant

You’re right OP my sisters next doors neighbours aunts hairdressers brother claims PIPand he gets £357763245335 a week and also gets a free Ferrari every year, he admitted he only spends his PIP money on champagne, cocaine and sex workers it’s an absolute disgrace, keep fighting the good fight OP

😂 absolute melts

That would work for the LWRCA. But wouldn't work for pip. And fair play it should be used for LWRCA. Theyre on about removing it for under 25s yet there will be people caught in the cross fire with severe disabilities like learning disabilities who won't be able to ever work. I would welcome something like that with open arms.
I also think those with depression shouldn't get lwrca either. But again its very different to pip.

So they need to look into ways of preventing that rather than complaining that disabled people aren't poor enough.

They are checking our accounts, so if you know she is not putting on medical stuff why don't you report her.

I don't get a a receipt for my cleaner pay her directly. The agency want to pay her just 13 a hour I pay 20 as she has experience in disability. And I trust her a lot.

I'd like to see more done about people who are gaming the system. There is fraud on all sides of the system (rich and poor) - I'd like to see it all stopped.

But the almost daily threads benefit bashing create an environment that is difficult for those who are genuinely claiming. It just stokes the hate (as is probably intended).

People might flick past the thread and take away something like "most young people claiming PIP spend the money on tattoos."
Maybe some are, and maybe some young people are saying this to the OP and don't mean it, not everyone wants to admit to all and sundry that they are in genuine need.

This. My neighbours have no idea of how my disability affects me, because I do not tell them, and they do not need to know. I could not imagine going into my financial affairs with them either. I cannot believe the amount of people who supposedly tell all at the school gates, in work, or in the shops, down the lane, how they are getting xyz, and scamming all over the shop!

The uk has a LOT of elderly people.

in the 1950s and 1960s the population was skewed towards younger people. There were fewer elderly people.

the more elderly people you have in your population the more likely you have to have disabled people - most people who are disabled are not born with their disability - they have a stroke/cancer/heart attack/are in a major accident or similar.

it’s been predicted for decades that the number of elderly people in the population will go up as the baby boomers start to retire. It’s also been predicted for decades that the numbers of disabled people would increase alongside that.

when the pension age was increased recently the government did some modelling to try to see what would happen and one of the expected consequences was an increase in people claiming disability benefits as they are now too young for the state pension but are too ill to work.

this is the demographic I fit in - I’m too young for my state pension but I’m too ill to work so I claim pip and esa. I also get my private pension early as I have been medically certified unfit for any kind of work.

so at least some of the increase in disability benefits was expected.

My friend lost his mobility car when they last looked into pip. They decided that he could walk x metres unaided, a prosthetic leg does not count as an aid apparently, he was no longer entitled. Without the car he could no longer get to work so had to claim full benefits instead.

It absolutely should be means tested, I was pretty appalled to learn that Andrew Marr claims it. People not understanding the difference between need and entitlement are destroying the UK.

I believe you Op. I walked past my neighbour the other day, who was in her garden doing handy work, and she told me that she had qualified for PIP, due to having arthritis. I know she does have this, as I've seen her hobbling some days. She has bad days and good days. On top of PIP, she has had her Council Tax bill reduced to Nil (we are in the second highest band at £350pm) and also the Council have re-carpeted her whole house and supplied smoke alarms. She owns her own home, but granted, her income is very low, she is very open about this. I'm really pleased for her, she's such a lovely lady, but I was surprised at the same time, especially the free Council Tax part.

On the other hand, I find myself hobbling most days, just due to menopausal aches and pains, but that's not really an illness is it, so I guess I'll just keep paying for everything myself.

They don't check your accounts if you are claiming DLA for your child. They will do if you also claim UC but they aren't really interested in what you spend your money on (especially DLA), they are just making sure that you aren't over the savings threshold.

4.9 million of the 7 million claimants for disability / sickness are working age.

83% of PIP claimants are of working age, 17% are over state pension age.

I have.no doubt that people are abusing the system who do not need PIP. My son who is genuinely disabled had to send a mountain of medical evidence for his claim so I don't understand how people can claim and be approved when it's made up.. Obviously they lie but how do they get the medical evidence?

I think the threads pop up because this country is bankrupt and the press are leathering everyone day after day with whose fault it is.

People who work are fed up with being taxed to death but nothing gets better so are looking for someone to blame and the very high benefits bill has a lot to do with it.
I am a massive fan of benefits and am happy for my taxes to be used to help someone who isn't as health or as lucky as me but it's very disingenuous to pretend that there aren't a lot of people who scam the system, not just for disability/sickness but also claiming to be a single parent while the father lives there and works full time. There is a LOT of that that goes on in the town where I work.
Benefits are there to help and lift those members of society that need it as they absolutely should be.
But there is a lot of money diverted to people who just can't be bothered to work or pay for their own lives and that's not right.