PIP isn't fit for purpose

[Ljcrow]

I made this comment on another thread and thought I'd start a separate thread purely on this topic. This is all from my own personal experience rather than from reading/hearing anything, I'm only going off what I see day to day.
The people I know who claim PIP do not need it financially. One works full time and earns more than me (and I'm not at imminent risk of homelessness or starvation) and the young people I know literally tell me things like their PIP's come in so they're off to get a new tattoo, which they then do. They appear to have much more disposable income than me.
These are all people who can function in society by the way and as far as I can see, all PIP does is give them extra spending money, which I'm sure we'd all like.

I'm aware this won't be the case for everyone who recieves PIP but it is for the people I come into regular contact with. Which is why it needs reloooking at so it only goes to those who actually need the money for a specific purpose related to their disability.

We're not in a position as a society where we can afford to give people money who do not actually need it.
Things like this should be means tested, both in terms of whether people have enough income to live a decent life without additional benefits and in terms of what the money is actually going to be used for.
PIP is not fit for purpose and needs scrapping or totally changing.

Report them of you feel that strident - do you need the number?

My son needs a pair of school shoes every half term due to his dyspraxia and the way he walks. They have holes the toes after 5-6 weeks. My other children need a pair of school shoes every year unless they grow out of them sooner
So did my son. His toes are weird and he ended up with holes at the top every few months. Only due to genetics, his dad has the same weird toes. Should that justify extra money from the government?

My son has leg braces so needs adapted shoes to fit them which are more expensive than the shoes he used to be able to wear. His braces then tear the inside of his shoes to shreds which means they regularly need replacing and as you say, with shoes before, they only needed replacing when he outgrew them.

This is not how PIP works. It doesn’t matter what you tell your doctor. Your doctor doesn’t make the benefit decision, DWP does and what matters is whether the assessor agrees and what actual medical evidence you have - not a copy of a GP record continuing something you told them which has nothing to back it up. I have no idea where the idea came from that assessors will accept anything you say because it’s been my overwhelming experience that the polar opposite is true. The starting point of a PIP assessment is that the claimant is a liar until they can prove otherwise.

I did report them - my pp was about doing so.

And why should people pay for glasses or dental treatment? These are medical needs, yet not paid for by the government unless you genuinely can't afford to do so financially

Oh wait, it's not a PIP criteria!

I don’t know, you’d have to put in a claim for DLA I guess?
It’s not the only issue he has though. His DLA also pays for his nappies and wipes (he’s 8), his pushchair, his occupational therapy, his speech therapy, redecorating when he smears faeces up the walls amongst other things. I also had to give up my £90k a year job to care for him. Happy to swap if you like?

The rules on prescription charge exmeptions are weird imo.

I've had free prescriptions for decades because I have an underactive thyroid and hypothyroidism is one of the qualifying conditions.

They can wear shoes down on for example one side due to gait …my son does this - I don’t regard it as a major issue in comparison with getting a shrink for him but it does happen

Obviously when young there is toe walking and they have NHS paedo boots to try to correct it. People with developmental issues from birth and ASD have neurologicla issues eg toe walking and or the ASD gait. some also have the ASD speech patterns - all this stuff is recognisable hence they were thinking of recategorising ASD into smaller groups eg profound, complex development from birth etc

autistic gait refers to distinctive movement and walking patterns often seen in individuals on the autism spectrum, driven by differences in brain development, sensory processing, and motor coordination. 1, 2]
Key Characteristics of Autistic Gait
Toe-Walking: Walking on the balls of the feet or toes without the heel touching the ground is one of the most common visual traits. 1, 2]
Wider Base of Support: Increased step width and a wider stance are often used to compensate for balance and stability challenges. 1, 2]
Altered Stride and Speed: Reduced stride length, variable step timing, and a slower overall walking speed are frequently observed. 1, 2, 3]
Prolonged Stance Phase: More time is spent with the foot planted on the ground (double support time), making the movement pattern look less fluid or more effortful. 1, 2]
Upper Body Movement: Increased upper body sway, a forward tilt, or a bouncier stride can occur as the lower body adjusts for balance. 1]
Underlying Causes
Brain Structure and Function: Differences in the basal ganglia (which sequence automatic movements) and the cerebellum (which handles balance and coordination) affect how walking is timed and controlled. 1]
Sensory Processing: Uncomfortable sensory feedback from flat-footed walking or low muscle tone/hypermobility can lead an individual to adopt alternative postures like toe-walking. 1]

Not quite true. There are optical vouchers that aren’t about income/savings. Though most of the time they don’t cover the whole cost, but then neither does PIP for the vast majority.

It’s notable that absolutely zero of the people asserting that PIP is unaffordable for the UK/ should be means-tested/ should have restrictions placed on what it can be spent on etc - i.e. those attempting to assert that their reason for believing that PIP should be changed is a valid economic reason and that their suggestions for changing it would improve the UK fiscal position - have replied to my post about the economic reasons that it is designed that way it is and not means-tested or restricted in terms of what it can be spent on.

why?

it will contain the same amount of absolute shite unverifiable anecdata and agenda-fuelled lies as this one 😆

are you expecting a higher quality of output from the same "contributors" ?

its like asking donkeys to run the Grand National

I heard someone is getting £10k a week for having a support donkey - they even got free blinkers for it !!!,😡 a friend of a friend, twice-removed, who I once met for a ham sandwich, told me so

I have no idea where the idea came from that assessors will accept anything you say because it’s been my overwhelming experience that the polar opposite is true. The starting point of a PIP assessment is that the claimant is a liar until they can prove otherwise
There are conditions, especially mental that can't be 'evidenced' as such but by what the person relates to be their experiences.

A doctor, any doctor, has a duty to take what you say to them at face value. If you tell your GP that you experience extreme distress when you leave your home, that's that. How do you evidence that you never leave your home because of how scared you feel doing so? How are you going to prove to the assessor that you're not lying beyond what you or others tell them?

ah yes, because what disabled people need is another ill informed thread made about them spewing vitriol

I have problems with my gait too, to the extent that because of that and a few other symptoms, my neurologist was querying a mild form of spina bifida which I thankfully don't have

The time itself that it takes to find shoes an autistic person can actually wear also obviously has a cost. In one case, it took me over 10 hours in various shoe shops to prevent my child having to go to school in bare feet.

Not quite true. There are optical vouchers that aren’t about income/savings. Though most of the time they don’t cover the whole cost, but then neither does PIP for the vast majority
You are only eligible if you are a child, a student under 20, or you need an NHS complex lens. All other reasons are low income related.

I've lost count of the amount of time I've wasted on trying to find suitable shoes. Annoyingly I ordered a pair online a few years ago, went to replace them and they weren't selling them again

I get upset because lost in the mist people don’t realise that those invisible disabilities are not invisible ( our kids act differently, talk differently and even walk differently)

Its I suspect a form of white matter damage. Well I actually know that from a Bep and the medics will know that as in demylination of white matter

As part of all that the gait can be different which is why paedo boots are dispensed when they are kids but as adults there can be wear and tear in shoes because it can be one sided. This means that shoes get wrecked quicker

No, we don’t know them. But it’s rather sad that you’re fixated on them after they’ve both passed away and it doesn’t reflect well on you. I still think you should get a life.

VEP visual evoked potential test

I think that pip is not means tested as it is for the additional costs associated with with disability. Fair enough.

op -I also understand were you are comming from when you say spend a day at your workplace and you would see it . I worked many years ago in a benefit office and was told by some that they wouldn’t get out of bed for my wage and Ive seen people first hand for example - in my job- having to give emergency help to people who choose other priorities than their kids like nails - its broken my heart seeing the dc. I could see their nails and things like that .

I think some claimants - like the ones I sat behind on the bus last week - and who were saying - they had their dla and were on the way to wetherspoons for “ a sesh” - are annoying. It may be bravado? But see below..!

I think that for people on long term low benefits it must be a struggle and i for one would want little treats as it must be so soul distroying ? Whats changed i think is people used to associate them with ‘ shame’ or something like it , whereas now its not associated- and so they talk about it , and in doing so we hear more examples than in the past of instances were people spend benefits - essentially public money - in ways that hard strapped non recipients can find hard to hear at times with their own financial struggles ? ( obviously not talking about about people with in work benefits here ) - so it becomes more apparent and in some ways more annoying for some ?

In terms of disability benefits- my own relative has a very comfortable life on them - she could work - but chooses not to - and has never been pressured to do so as her disability ( cannot walk) evident .
She shops in Waitrose , has a cleaner and a weekly massage - all of these things make her life better - i think we are all human and in threse frazzled times - it can be hard not to judge as we feel so stretched .?

We all have our Achilles heels-
I try to live and let live were I can - but certain things can be annoying. My gripe is a close friend - who is evidently ( and says so) very wealthy- I go to their home - we are talking millionaire - and he claims oip- he has told me more than once - oh I don't need it . i save it for our holiday s.

That is my personal bug bear.
we all have them - I get it - but innthe main , I think we are correct in out society in that we protect the more vulnerable - via these benefits- and we have to accept that the potential for abuse will always be there - but that is not a reason to penalise or demonise the majority .

The shoe thing is not about whether a disability can cause a quick wear of shoe or bit. It's that there are other reasons for this to happen through no choice of the wearer, that are not funded.

Right, so as I said, it isn’t quite true to say glasses are not funded by the government unless you genuinely can't afford to do so financially. Someone could afford it but still be eligible for a voucher because of their needs.